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  1. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Funny then how miserable people are in countries like North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela and Sri Lanka where disparity of wealth is low?
    I would have thought this shows the opposite. Wealth is HUGHLY concentrated in a few hands for example Kim Jong-un and his mates, Miguel Diaz-Canel and the communist elites, Nicolas Maduro and more recently whoever recently resigned/fled in Sri Lanka (I don't think he was a communist, maybe a meo-liberal).

    Whether it is the concentration of power and/or wealth (as wealth = power) in a few hands it usually results in a corrupt miserable sh*t hole country. Was Ferdinand Marcos Snr a communist??

  2. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    I would have thought this shows the opposite. Wealth is HUGHLY concentrated in a few hands for example Kim Jong-un and his mates, Miguel Diaz-Canel and the communist elites, Nicolas Maduro and more recently whoever recently resigned/fled in Sri Lanka (I don't think he was a communist, maybe a meo-liberal).

    Whether it is the concentration of power and/or wealth (as wealth = power) in a few hands it usually results in a corrupt miserable sh*t hole country. Was Ferdinand Marcos Snr a communist??
    We are discussing the general population here, right?

    Fidel Castro never lived a luxurious or extravagant lifestyle nor did he allowed his government comrades to do so. So why is the country still such a shxt hole?

  3. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by davflaws View Post
    Past a (fairly low) level, it is not the prosperity that brings health and happiness, and Japan is not quoted as an example of how to get out of recession (though it remains a very rich country despite recession). Health and happiness is improved for EVERYONE when the difference between the wealth of the richest and the poorest is reduced,
    It remains a rich country due to a highly educated population and a work culture and commitment that would never be possible to achieve in NZ, nor do I think we'd want that job culture. I work with a few Japanese guys. Incredibly committed workers and good at their jobs, but very little personal or family life.
    I agree Japan is not a good example for NZ.

  4. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    We are discussing the general population here, right?

    Fidel Castro never lived a luxurious or extravagant lifestyle nor did he allowed his government comrades to do so. So why is the country still such a shxt hole?
    I don't know, I have never studied it. I imagine sanctions didn't help. What would be more interesting is to know what sort of country was it before communism.

    The fastest way to pure communism is pure capitalism I reckon. What was Cuba like that the general population would accept communism instead of what they had prior, I think Cuba was quite a wealthy country prior to Fidel but to be honest I have never studied this.

    The wealth divide in the US is ahead of NZ, interesting to see if communism/socialism starts to become more acceptable in some sectors of society over there.
    Last edited by Aaron; 16-05-2022 at 08:34 AM.

  5. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    I don't know, I have never studied it. I imagine sanctions didn't help. What would be more interesting is to know what sort of country was it before communism.

    The fastest way to pure communism is pure capitalism I reckon. What was Cuba like that the general population would accept communism instead of what they had prior, I think Cuba was quite a wealthy country prior to Fidel but to be honest I have never studied this.

    The wealth divide in the US is ahead of NZ, interesting to see if communism/socialism starts to become more acceptable in some sectors of society over there.
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...ion-159682020/

    Read at your leisure.

    NZ does not have a huge wealth gap - what it has is an incompetent socialist government with prolific wasteful spending and clueless economic policies.

  6. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    The wealth divide in the US is ahead of NZ, interesting to see if communism/socialism starts to become more acceptable in some sectors of society over there.
    It already would be if they weren't religious.

    Why have public healthcare for instance when you're going to heaven.

  7. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...ion-159682020/

    Read at your leisure.

    NZ does not have a huge wealth gap - what it has is an incompetent socialist government with prolific wasteful spending and clueless economic policies.
    Looks like corrupt politicians are the biggest problem a country faces if Batista is anything to go by. America doesn't come off too well in the link you provided either.

    Probably getting off track anyway as this thread is about ACT policy.

    How do you measure the wealth gap and what would be considered big.

    Despite all my angst Stats NZ says the distribution of wealth has not changed between 2015 and 2021. Whether 10% of the population holding 50% of the wealth is huge or not is subjective I guess?

    What would you consider a huge wealth gap? 80%-90% owned by the top 10%??

    https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/distr...%20%2411%2C000.

    Per the earlier treasury page it appears 9% of the population earn 42% of the taxed income. whether that represents a huge gap might be considered subjective as well I suppose?

    https://www.treasury.govt.nz/informa...ays-income-tax

    The surveys might be wrong.

    Don't get me wrong I don't begrudge people their success but I just think they are in a better position to contribute to society so a progressive rather than flat tax makes sense to me.

    And a capital gains tax wouldn't go amiss but ACT is not alone not wanting this.
    Last edited by Aaron; 16-05-2022 at 04:04 PM. Reason: grammar

  8. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Looks like corrupt politicians are the biggest problem a country faces if Batista is anything to go by. America doesn't come off too well in the link you provided either.

    Probably getting off track anyway as this thread is about ACT policy.

    How do you measure the wealth gap and what would be considered big.

    Despite all my angst Stats NZ says the distribution of wealth has not changed between 2015 and 2021. Whether 10% of the population holding 50% of the wealth is huge or not is subjective I guess?

    What would you consider a huge wealth gap? 80%-90% owned by the top 10%??

    https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/distr...%20%2411%2C000.

    Per the earlier treasury page it appears 9% of the population earn 42% of the taxed income. whether that represents a huge gap might be considered subjective as well I suppose?

    https://www.treasury.govt.nz/informa...ays-income-tax

    The surveys might be wrong.

    Don't get me wrong I don't begrudge people their success but I just think they are in a better position to contribute to society so a progressive rather than flat tax makes sense to me.

    And a capital gains tax wouldn't go amiss but ACT is not alone not wanting this.
    If only it were that simple.

  9. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post

    Don't get me wrong I don't begrudge people their success but I just think they are in a better position to contribute to society so a progressive rather than flat tax makes sense to me.

    And a capital gains tax wouldn't go amiss but ACT is not alone not wanting this.
    The majority of fair minded wealthy NZers would not mind paying more tax and would, I believe, support a capital gains tax. What they want in return however is for their taxes to be spent wisely, effectively, fairly and with full accountability & transparency. The quality of government spending matters greatly to them as they want to see their contributions genuinely improving the society as a whole.

    This is NOT what this Ardern government is capable of delivering, pure and simple.

    Ask any of your friends or contacts from the Scandinavian countries - they pay very high taxes but they do not begrudge paying the high taxes because there is a very close interaction between the taxes paid with social services & assistance (be them health, education, welfare or retirement) provided. And those countries enjoy relatively high employment too, despite the high taxes.

    Simple, isn’t it?

  10. #300
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    Most of our spending is due to the aging population... both super and healthcare.

    National refused to pre-fund this so it has to be paid from current revenue. Some parties other than Act/National are being sensible on the tax issue (it should mostly come from those who can afford it).
    Last edited by Panda-NZ-; 17-05-2022 at 03:00 AM.

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