ACT's David Seymour - i like his style.

[Blue Skies]

Your previous post claims the doctor on the nation changed your mind. Now you've decide to quote the majority of doctors. (wherever you got the idea that the majority oppose it) Why did you wait until The Nation to change your mind? I doubt you were ever in support of euthanasia, and that's fine - but just say so without all the b/s about changing your vote.

Whoa...take a deep breath before you start shooting from the hip & jumping to conclusions. No need for the crude personal attacks.

If you listen to the interview, Dr Donnelly the Specialist Palliative Care doctor states..."the Palliative Care Nurses NZ, Hospice NZ & the Palliative Care Doctors of NZ, are all deeply concerned about the risks this act has in it.".... "everyday we look after people who are dying, people who are extremely vulnerable."
1700 doctors have signed a petition against the bill, and the way I see it, it would be foolish to ignore all of this advice from dedicated specialists working in this field.

As I said, prior to seeing this interview, I was going to vote for the bill, but I'm inclined to follow the advice of specialists and dedicated people who work in palliative care rather than my own preconceived ideas.

As a person presently undergoing cancer treatment myself I previously thought euthanasia would be a very good option to have, but I can also now imagine how vulnerable you might feel, and I also know from direct observation those working in the palliative care field do not 'let people die long painful deaths against their will', in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

If you don't see it that way, that's fine, just vote for the bill, but please don't presume you know what I am thinking and less of the personal attacks just because you disagree.

[Panda-NZ-]

There are things which can be done to manage pain for the 6 months time window of this bill.

Those in chronic long term pain would not be helped by this proposal. Not a fan of the spokesperson either so will be voting against but yes for cannibas (two plant per household limit).

[fungus pudding]

There are things which can be done to manage pain for the 6 months time window of this bill.

Those in chronic long term pain would not be helped by this proposal. Not a fan of the spokesperson either so will be voting against but yes for cannibas (two plant per household limit).

Not liking the spokesperson must be the best reason I've ever heard for opposing this bill. Well done. Presumably you don't think much of anyone you've ever known, barely existing in extreme pain, either. Make them suffer - keep in mind you don't like 'the spokesperson'. Tell them that at their bedside.

[Panda-NZ-]

What problem will it solve given it's 6 months and either they will recover or die anyway? Plus as I said the pain can be managed in that timeframe rather well or kept in a medical coma for that time.

I'm sure medical experts know more and we should listen to them preferably.

[Raz]

What problem will it solve given it's 6 months and either they will recover or die anyway? Plus as I said the pain can be managed in that timeframe rather well or kept in a medical coma for that time.

I'm sure medical experts know more and we should listen to them preferably.

Well that does not happen now. I have seen palliative care not be effective. So perhaps like all disciplines, her's been the specialist area of palliative care, she has bias to what she has invested her life's work in and caught by group think.

[Norwest]

Well that does not happen now. I have seen palliative care not be effective. So perhaps like all disciplines, her's been the specialist area of palliative care, she has bias to what she has invested her life's work in and caught by group think.

I agree, she has pecuniary motivations not to allow euthanasia

"the Palliative Care Nurses NZ, Hospice NZ & the Palliative Care Doctors of NZ, are all deeply concerned about the risks this act has in it.".... "everyday we look after people who are dying"

Yes and all of those organizations have pecuniary motivations as well.

[Blue Skies]

I agree, she has pecuniary motivations not to allow euthanasia



Yes and all of those organizations have pecuniary motivations as well.

I'm sorry Norwest but that's an unbelievably ignorant & offensive thing to say.

Whatever their personal reasons are based on, whether you agree or nor, I can assure you money does not come into it.

[blackcap]

I agree, she has pecuniary motivations not to allow euthanasia



Yes and all of those organizations have pecuniary motivations as well.

That's a bit nasty of you. Casting aspersions there. Can you back up your assertions?

[Norwest]

I didn't want to appear as mean or nasty. I apologize if you felt I meant to come off that way.

If Euthanasia is made legal, there is going to be less of a need for palliative care. Less palliative care equals less money (e.g. government subsidies, funding etc and also private money) given to anyone involved with providing palliative care.

adjective: palliative (of a medicine or medical care) relieving pain without dealing with the cause of the condition.

adjective: pecuniary relating to or consisting of money.

The fact that the palliative care doctor arguing with Seymour is involved with a private healthcare facility has it's ownership structured in a way through a systematic series of holding companies ultimately ending up in the Channel Island's, a known tax haven. If she wasn't involved with this organization I would have kept my mouth shut.

[fungus pudding]

I didn't want to appear as mean or nasty. I apologize if you felt I meant to come off that way.

If Euthanasia is made legal, there is going to be less of a need for palliative care. Less palliative care equals less money (e.g. government subsidies, funding etc and also private money) given to anyone involved with providing palliative care.

adjective: palliative (of a medicine or medical care) relieving pain without dealing with the cause of the condition.

adjective: pecuniary relating to or consisting of money.

The fact that the palliative care doctor arguing with Seymour is involved with a private healthcare facility has it's ownership structured in a way through a systematic series of holding companies ultimately ending up in the Channel Island's, a known tax haven. If she wasn't involved with this organization I would have kept my mouth shut.

Fascinating. How about some more detail, e.g. name of pvt. healthcare facility, details of holding companies etc.