ACT's David Seymour - i like his style.

[Bjauck]

You may find excellent teachers shine through in these areas

The ones who perhaps perform well in social work as well as teaching?

[minimoke]

The ones who perhaps perform well in social work as well as teaching?

Depends on how excellence will be defined.

[Bjauck]

Depends on how excellence will be defined.

Sure. And will it differ from rich to poor areas? So you think excellence for teachers in areas becoming more deprived will be constantly changing to include expertise in social work? Whilst those in continually prosperous areas will be judged on their ability to teach? So teaching ability will not necessarily mean teaching ability depending on where you teach?

[hardt]

Sure. And will it differ from rich to poor areas? So you think excellence for teachers in areas becoming more deprived will be constantly changing to include expertise in social work? Whilst those in continually prosperous areas will be judged on their ability to teach? So teaching ability will not necessarily mean teaching ability depending on where you teach?

Question - are underprivileged kids going to be better off or worse off with teachers now being incentivised greatly for their performance and their rapport with students?

Perhaps, teachers in a decile 1 school might find it more difficult to earn 80k a year under this scheme, but at least the opportunity is there and where there is opportunity there will always be those who rise.

As it is now ( with 4 teachers in my family who obviously love this policy ) the only monetary reward teachers can hope for is a chance at moving into a leadership position - essentially the teachers who are performing well and are considered for a promotion can now, through this policy be rewarded without having to leave the classroom where the real work with students occurs...

The opportunity to work 60 hour weeks and earn under 60k did not sell a lot of great candidates on the idea of going into teaching, perhaps this might?

[minimoke]

Sure. And will it differ from rich to poor areas? So you think excellence for teachers in areas becoming more deprived will be constantly changing to include expertise in social work? Whilst those in continually prosperous areas will be judged on their ability to teach? So teaching ability will not necessarily mean teaching ability depending on where you teach?

I think you arte taking an overall elitist view. Suggestign those in "poor" areas are trouble and those in "rich" areas aren't.

Schools in poor areas turn out excellent students. Hoi polio private schools can turn out toe rags - though you wont see them in the NCEA stats as they are kept out of that part of the system.

[Bjauck]

I think you arte taking an overall elitist view. Suggestign those in "poor" areas are trouble and those in "rich" areas aren't.
...

LOL but true we should not foreget the deprivation and challenges in high decile zones.

[minimoke]

LOL but true we should not foreget the deprivation and challenges in high decile zones.

They certainly have access to a better class of drug and mental health issues of a much more privileged nature

[fungus pudding]

They certainly have access to a better class of drug and mental health issues of a much more privileged nature

Are you talking about the teachers?

[tim23]

Good post - sums it up nicely and probably about how it is too.

If you have excellent teachers but in an area of increasing poverty, increasing overcrowding and/or substandard housing and poor quality equipment, the chances are their performance will suffer. If some teachers increasingly have students who are inadequately nourished and clothed and the students continually fall ill, then some teachers have a deteriorating environment in which they try to teach

[tim23]

Good theory but too many variables - you have to trust that poor performance is managed by Principals so that teachers are performing at minimal satisfactory levels.

Exactly.
Get the teachers teaching - and reward the good ones. Get the social workers social working - and likewise reward the good ones.

Above all set some consequences for parents who aren't providing the basics and prefer to have their children in "poverty"