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  1. #61
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    Good theory but too many variables - you have to trust that poor performance is managed by Principals so that teachers are performing at minimal satisfactory levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Exactly.
    Get the teachers teaching - and reward the good ones. Get the social workers social working - and likewise reward the good ones.

    Above all set some consequences for parents who aren't providing the basics and prefer to have their children in "poverty"

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Exactly.
    Get the teachers teaching - and reward the good ones. Get the social workers social working - and likewise reward the good ones
    Agreed. Spot on!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim23 View Post
    Good theory but too many variables - you have to trust that poor performance is managed by Principals so that teachers are performing at minimal satisfactory levels.
    Remove the shackles of a Collective Agreement that protects the inept would be a step in the right direction. But seriously - principals should manage poor performing teachers. That is part of their job and the Ministry of Education should provide support if they need help to do this.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Remove the shackles of a Collective Agreement that protects the inept would be a step in the right direction. But seriously - principals should manage poor performing teachers. That is part of their job and the Ministry of Education should provide support if they need help to do this.
    I've worked in large corporates and can tell you that plenty of managers have no idea how to deal with poor performers or any serious conflict actually. Fortunately they can often find an excuse to restructure and make poor performers redundant rather than go through the very stressful performance management process. Happens all the time.

    Principals can't restructure like that.

    And you won't hear it admitted, but some of those made redundant may be OK performance wise but if they have had one or two lots of stress leave they become a serious financial risk to the organisation under H&S.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post

    And you won't hear it admitted, but some of those made redundant may be OK performance wise but if they have had one or two lots of stress leave they become a serious financial risk to the organisation under H&S.
    Probably time for a seperate thread, but unless its in the Agreement, no such thing as stress leave.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Probably time for a seperate thread, but unless its in the Agreement, no such thing as stress leave.
    Sick leave with a doctor's certificate citing cause as stress.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Remove the shackles of a Collective Agreement that protects the inept would be a step in the right direction. But seriously - principals should manage poor performing teachers. That is part of their job and the Ministry of Education should provide support if they need help to do this.
    " You go to school to learn how to learn " quote by Bala Manian a Silicon Valley entrepreneur.

    Many successful people were not much good academically at school.
    Seymour's idea of paying teachers according to ability is seriously flawed in as much as without an independent body and an accurate method of grading teachers leaving it to headmasters/mistresses or school commitees will only result in upset teachers hurt by perceived or real bias. There is a shortage of qualified teachers now (especially men) and this sort of policy would only cause doubt amongst those considering a teaching career.

    westerly

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by westerly View Post
    " You go to school to learn how to learn " quote by Bala Manian a Silicon Valley entrepreneur.

    Many successful people were not much good academically at school.
    Seymour's idea of paying teachers according to ability is seriously flawed in as much as without an independent body and an accurate method of grading teachers leaving it to headmasters/mistresses or school commitees will only result in upset teachers hurt by perceived or real bias. There is a shortage of qualified teachers now (especially men) and this sort of policy would only cause doubt amongst those considering a teaching career.

    westerly
    I agree, some here think or wish for an eutopian world where some system somehow weeds out the poor teachers and rewards the good teachers. The whole notion is flawed, implausible and totally impractical. Typical hard right, who think reward the good, punish the bad and it'll all be right in the middle.

    Notwithstanding ACT has about f'all chance of having anything to do with the next government, right or left. So Seymour has to put out controversial un-implementable nonsense just to get some oxygen during an election. Goodbye Seymour, neither the right nor the left will need or want you this time.

    Get real, all teachers are paid bugger all and they're responsible for our children's education! Better just to pay the poor teachers a decent wage and recognise their value and worth to society.

    No one needs a merit based values and reward system for teachers which no-one will be able to decide on the precise metrics, measures or assessments. It is a flawed concept, already proven by the inept and flawed NCEA levels measurements system, although that's for students.

    Education in NZ is truely screwed at all levels except pre-school although even that's grossly under funded. ACT will just add another layer of complete and utter dysfunction, with no likelyhood that a teacher will ever be paid their true worth. Sucks, the whole thing sucks imo. Act have no answer.

    Sadly no major party has an answer either, expect Labour who wish to rape the taxpayers to make "education free" again. Good grief. Losing the will to live.

    Elections, they're full of rhetoric that will never make it to fruition, except to highlight the extreme lengths some politicians will go to, in order to influence the un-informed.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    I agree, some here think or wish for an eutopian world where some system somehow weeds out the poor teachers and rewards the good teachers. The whole notion is flawed, implausible and totally impractical. Typical hard right, who think reward the good, punish the bad and it'll all be right in the middle.

    Notwithstanding ACT has about f'all chance of having anything to do with the next government, right or left. So Seymour has to put out controversial un-implementable nonsense just to get some oxygen during an election. Goodbye Seymour, neither the right nor the left will need or want you this time.

    Get real, all teachers are paid bugger all and they're responsible for our children's education! Better just to pay the poor teachers a decent wage and recognise their value and worth to society.
    Bogger all ? Not if you live down south where their income is probably well above average, along with police, and nurses.

  10. #70
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    Bogger all (what kind of word is that anyway Gus?) Baa Baa is on the money. It doesn't matter where you live - they pay is still poor in my opinion. UOTE=fungus pudding;681960]Bogger all ? Not if you live down south where their income is probably well above average, along with police, and nurses.[/QUOTE]

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim23 View Post
    Bogger all (what kind of word is that anyway Gus?) Baa Baa is on the money. It doesn't matter where you live - they pay is still poor in my opinion.
    Bogger - great word! The benefits of a Collective is you get to negotiate to the lowest common dominator. Which means you can be a piss poor teacher in Eketahuna and get paid just as much as an excellent teacher in Remuera. Aspirational stuff!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Bogger - great word! The benefits of a Collective is you get to negotiate to the lowest common dominator. Which means you can be a piss poor teacher in Eketahuna and get paid just as much as an excellent teacher in Remuera. Aspirational stuff!
    Indeed it is a great wurd and duesn't cume to the attentiun uf the muderaturs.
    Last edited by fungus pudding; 10-09-2017 at 08:21 AM.

  13. #73
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    Making more sense again today. Time for churches / charitable trusts to pay income tax

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Making more sense again today. Time for churches / charitable trusts to pay income tax
    The best thinker in NZ politics.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    The best thinker in NZ politics.
    New Zealand's doomed then.

    Is there enough Jet A-1 left to get me on a plane out?

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