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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    The tax system. Not many households paying net tax in NZ
    Could that be because so many are not being taught how to use the marbles they have ?..

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    Thank you Iceman. Yes, the tax system. Iím sure the article is on the money.
    Yes a good article and on the money.
    I must admit I like the balance we have in NZ.
    Would like more to help poverty but it will not be helped by increasing taxes .
    We need to increase economic activity to provide aid(not money) to help lift families-especially kids in adverse circumstances affecting their health and futures .
    Banning oil and gas exploration is just one of the many current policies that will backfire.
    I guess Jacinda had to pacify the greens

  3. #108
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    Congrats to d seymour getting this through by a decent majority. Im sure NZ will agree.

    Vickers proud after euthanasia vote

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Congrats to d seymour getting this through by a decent majority. Im sure NZ will agree.

    Vickers proud after euthanasia vote
    Doctors aren't keen to perform it. It goes against their ethics. The palliative care speciallists don't want it either. So the professionals who deal with these issues everyday have been ignored by an MP (and all those who voted for it) who is only in parliament by an accident of MMP.
    Much like abortion. The vast majority of the country's abortions are done by a handful of people, bloodsoaked to the elbows. Overseas abortionists have high turnover and suicide rates. Conscience finally gets to them in the end. I wonder whether Seymour has one?

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Congrats to d seymour getting this through by a decent majority. Im sure NZ will agree.

    Vickers proud after euthanasia vote
    Speak for yourself because a lot of NZ doesnt agree, most medically related people dont for a start, add to that the many different disability groups etc etc.

  6. #111
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    Im speaking for a majority. Long time coming and about time. Nobody but nobody has the right to force someone to suffer. We all want a good death.Also was disgusted at some people pretending they had valid reasons against when they were actually only religious ones, no compassion there.
    Last edited by Joshuatree; 14-11-2019 at 09:50 PM.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Im speaking for a majority. Long time coming and about time. Nobody but nobody has the right to force someone to suffer. We all want a good death.Also was disgusted at some people pretending they had valid reasons against when they were actually only religious ones, no compassion there.
    I would argue religious conviction is a totally valid reason. Or are people of a religious persuasion not allowed to have a view that aligns with their beliefs?

  8. #113
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    No not when some one is terminal and their pain cant be managed for example, no place at all.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    No not when some one is terminal and their pain cant be managed for example, no place at all.
    It's very rare that pain can't be managed in this day and age and I've seen a lot of people with terminal illness die over the last 30 yrs.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    No not when some one is terminal and their pain cant be managed for example, no place at all.
    Totally disagree. The amount of "suffering" or "discomfort" does not even come into it.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    I would argue religious conviction is a totally valid reason. Or are people of a religious persuasion not allowed to have a view that aligns with their beliefs?
    The Bill has nothing to do with religion. Not one iota. People of a religious persuasion are still allowed to have a view that aligns with their beliefs

    That statement may now be written:

    People have the ability to maintain a view, & now also make a choice, that aligns with their beliefs, their situation and themselves...
    Last edited by t.rexjr; 15-11-2019 at 01:43 AM.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    Doctors aren't keen to perform it. It goes against their ethics. The palliative care speciallists don't want it either. So the professionals who deal with these issues everyday have been ignored by an MP (and all those who voted for it) who is only in parliament by an accident of MMP.
    Much like abortion. The vast majority of the country's abortions are done by a handful of people, bloodsoaked to the elbows. Overseas abortionists have high turnover and suicide rates. Conscience finally gets to them in the end. I wonder whether Seymour has one?
    Given that a Doctor or Medical Professional risked being stuck off if they voiced their belief, it's misguided to cast that statement upon those that you seemingly speak on behalf of...

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by t.rexjr View Post
    The Bill has nothing to do with religion. Not one iota. People of a religious persuasion are still allowed to have a view that aligns with their beliefs

    That statement may now be written:

    People have the ability to maintain a view, & now also make a choice, that aligns with their beliefs, their situation and themselves...
    That is the point I am trying to make. If people of religious persuasion and view think that euthanasia is a good thing they can vote accordingly. If they think it is a bad thing they can vote accordingly. (of course there are many other variables at play when people make decisions but that is up to them)

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Im speaking for a majority. Long time coming and about time. Nobody but nobody has the right to force someone to suffer. We all want a good death.Also was disgusted at some people pretending they had valid reasons against when they were actually only religious ones, no compassion there.
    And there is the voice of bigotry.

    "Pretending"? Protecting the vulnerable is the height of compassion. Ignoring a persons secular arguments because they also happen to be religious? Bigotry, pure and simple.

  15. #120
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    To vote, protest or rally against something, demanding your belief (secular or not) upon others when the outcome does not effect you is the epitome of bigotry.
    Last edited by t.rexjr; 15-11-2019 at 10:26 AM.

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