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  1. #1
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Default Labour - first hundred days.

    10 things on the list.

    Here's one. Take the first steps to clean up our rivers and lakes by holding a Clean Waterways Summit of all key stakeholder.

    So, once again evidence of no ideas and government by committee.

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    I think its called consultation I recall National holding a jobs summit when newly elected but I bet you didn't accuse them of government by committee?
    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    10 things on the list.

    Here's one. Take the first steps to clean up our rivers and lakes by holding a Clean Waterways Summit of all key stakeholder.

    So, once again evidence of no ideas and government by committee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim23 View Post
    I think its called consultation I recall National holding a jobs summit when newly elected but I bet you didn't accuse them of government by committee?
    The Job Summit was a reaction to the worst economic downturn in living memory. National admitted it was in uncharterd waters. But it was after they had already introduced a ReStart package to lessen the financial shock of unexpected redundancy; passed legislation to introduce personal tax reductionson 1 April; introduced a major bill to reform the Resource Management Act, to remove some of the barriers to new development and to reduce costs and compliance for Kiwi businesses and families; announced a package of tax changes to lighten the load on small and medium-sized businesses, to ease cash flow for all businesses and reduce compliance costs; fast-tracked more than half a billion dollars of Government infrastructure projects, including new schools, the Kopu Bridge and new state houses.

    So National already had ideas and were acting on them. The Summit was a top-up

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    But Labour have a history of great ideas; Kiwisaver, Kiwibank, WFF and it goes on...
    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    The Job Summit was a reaction to the worst economic downturn in living memory. National admitted it was in uncharterd waters. But it was after they had already introduced a ReStart package to lessen the financial shock of unexpected redundancy; passed legislation to introduce personal tax reductionson 1 April; introduced a major bill to reform the Resource Management Act, to remove some of the barriers to new development and to reduce costs and compliance for Kiwi businesses and families; announced a package of tax changes to lighten the load on small and medium-sized businesses, to ease cash flow for all businesses and reduce compliance costs; fast-tracked more than half a billion dollars of Government infrastructure projects, including new schools, the Kopu Bridge and new state houses.

    So National already had ideas and were acting on them. The Summit was a top-up

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim23 View Post
    But Labour have a history of great ideas; Kiwisaver, Kiwibank, WFF and it goes on...
    But where are they now Tim? After 3 terms in opposition you'd hope they had more than the easily pronounced wish list. How the hell are they going to deliver them? And especially in regards to tax...don't give me a "trust us"....I don't. Tell what the real agenda is and let me vote on it.

    Jacinda is a hell of a communicator...I'll give her that. But she is also patronising and simplistic. Articulate fools scare the crap out of me.

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    Shes not patronising atall that's the domain of the National party - do you not recognise the wonderful things Labour have given us?
    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    But where are they now Tim? After 3 terms in opposition you'd hope they had more than the easily pronounced wish list. How the hell are they going to deliver them? And especially in regards to tax...don't give me a "trust us"....I don't. Tell what the real agenda is and let me vote on it.

    Jacinda is a hell of a communicator...I'll give her that. But she is also patronising and simplistic. Articulate fools scare the crap out of me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tim23 View Post
    Shes not patronising atall that's the domain of the National party - do you not recognise the wonderful things Labour have given us?
    Your answer is patronising in itself Tim. What Labour has done years ago is not what I would vote for in 2017. Micky Savage isn't around any more is he? If he looked at the Labour Party of today he would be asking where the workers have gone? The only people I can think of that he would be comfortable with would be Greg and Damien O'Connor. Damien O'Connor is something of a pariah in the Labour caucus...not liberal enough on social issues

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    Actually the things I was thinking about happened during the last Labour government and that was only 9 years back and maybe 2 weeks ahead?!
    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    Your answer is patronising in itself Tim. What Labour has done years ago is not what I would vote for in 2017. Micky Savage isn't around any more is he? If he looked at the Labour Party of today he would be asking where the workers have gone? The only people I can think of that he would be comfortable with would be Greg and Damien O'Connor. Damien O'Connor is something of a pariah in the Labour caucus...not liberal enough on social issues

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    HIT THE GROUND RUNNING
    LABOUR'S 100-DAY PLAN IN FULL:

    * Make the first year of tertiary education or training fees free and increase student allowances and living cost loans by $50 a week from January 1, 2018


    * Pass the Healthy Homes Guarantee Bill
    * Ban overseas speculators from buying existing residential properties
    * Stop the sell-off of state houses
    * Legislate to pass the Families Package, including the Winter Fuel Payment, Best Start and increases to Paid Parental Leave, to take effect from 1 July 2018. The families package replaces National's April1 tax cuts.
    * Introduce legislation to set a child poverty reduction target
    * Resume contributions to the New Zealand Superannuation Fund
    * Set up a Ministerial Inquiry on mental health
    * Hold a Clean Waterways Summit of all key stakeholders
    * Increase the minimum wage to $16.50/hour, to take effect 1 April 2018, and introduce legislation new industrial relations legislation

  10. #10
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    A hundred days of mourning for those that didn't vote Labour in conjunction with a hundred days of mourning for many who did vote Labour coming to the realization that the Jacindamania was just that, mania.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by couta1 View Post
    A hundred days of mourning for those that didn't vote Labour in conjunction with a hundred days of mourning for many who did vote Labour coming to the realization that the Jacindamania was just that, mania.
    A guy called Russell Dalton has an interesting view on democracy -

    ......democracy suffers because too many active citizens lack the abilities and resources to make meaningful decisions. Some say that democracy is based on “fairy tales” and “folk theory” because of the limitations of the citizenry. Others say voices seemingly yearn for an epistocracy where the knowledgeable decide. Thus, the experts agree: contemporary democracies are suffering; the reason is either too little or too much citizen participation.


    Love the fairy tales and folk theory bits

    Where NZ is at the moment methinks
    Last edited by winner69; 12-09-2017 at 12:14 PM.
    “What the wise man does in the beginning, the fool does in the end”

  12. #12
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    Actually, the first of the 10 Labour pledges really got me thinking. It's been doing my head in for a few weeks. The other pledges read well and National have a response to most of them, but this one, the tertiary Education funding card really got me.

    "Make the first year of tertiary education or training fees free and increase student allowances and living cost loans by $50 a week from January 1, 2018

    It might not apply to many here, I wouldn't really know, but as a parent who has teenagers entering Uni shortly, I think National need to nip this one in the bud very quickly or face a tsunami of support for Labour from the under 30 voters, the 18+ voters who are going to Uni, and the poor parents who are or will be subsidising their children's Uni education.

    This one policy .. just this one policy of free education, could be a deciding factor. An election only needs one significant differentiator and Labour, this time, have National up against the wall.

    C'mon Bill, you have to differentiate and not ignore the student vote and the funders of the students! Do something about tertiary education funding and the ridiculous debt-for-life Student Loans regime.

    Or lose a forever National vote, to Labour.

    Just one thing can tip the balance.

    it's up to Bill to make this right.

    BAA

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post

    "Make the first year of tertiary education or training fees free and increase student allowances and living cost loans by $50 a week from January 1, 2018

    It might not apply to many here, I wouldn't really know, but as a parent who has teenagers entering Uni shortly, I think National need to nip this one in the bud very quickly or face a tsunami of support for Labour from the under 30 voters, the 18+ voters who are going to Uni, and the poor parents who are or will be subsidising their children's Uni education.

    BAA
    I am one of these parents so know how much university costs but I am dead against this idea.

    It would be like a slap in the face to show that the primary, intermediate and secondary schools systems had been an abject failure. If there is one lesson kids leaving school should have learnt is that nothing in life is free. A lesson as sure as taxes and death.

    Tertiary should not be free and I don't see why I should fund the first year while students "find themselves", party or simply avoid become a NEET.

    Had the policy be aimed at the skill shortage lists with a bonding requirement I might be more sympathetic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Actually, the first of the 10 Labour pledges really got me thinking. It's been doing my head in for a few weeks. The other pledges read well and National have a response to most of them, but this one, the tertiary Education funding card really got me.

    "Make the first year of tertiary education or training fees free and increase student allowances and living cost loans by $50 a week from January 1, 2018

    It might not apply to many here, I wouldn't really know, but as a parent who has teenagers entering Uni shortly, I think National need to nip this one in the bud very quickly or face a tsunami of support for Labour from the under 30 voters, the 18+ voters who are going to Uni, and the poor parents who are or will be subsidising their children's Uni education.

    This one policy .. just this one policy of free education, could be a deciding factor. An election only needs one significant differentiator and Labour, this time, have National up against the wall.

    C'mon Bill, you have to differentiate and not ignore the student vote and the funders of the students! Do something about tertiary education funding and the ridiculous debt-for-life Student Loans regime.

    Or lose a forever National vote, to Labour.

    Just one thing can tip the balance.

    it's up to Bill to make this right.

    BAA
    Bill is falling into the ficticous hole with Joyce created by Joyce; thats the biggest vote turner off imo the lying and not admitting they were wrong. Why would one want to vote for a party they can't trust. Joyce has done this in the last three elections as well made up stuff like this.

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    Good call hes been 3x lucky maybe his time is up can't think he'd hang around if National lose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Bill is falling into the ficticous hole with Joyce created by Joyce; thats the biggest vote turner off imo the lying and not admitting they were wrong. Why would one want to vote for a party they can't trust. Joyce has done this in the last three elections as well made up stuff like this.

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    Are you implying those voting who lack abilities etc might vote for Labour?
    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    A guy called Russell Dalton has an interesting view on democracy -

    ......democracy suffers because too many active citizens lack the abilities and resources to make meaningful decisions. Some say that democracy is based on “fairy tales” and “folk theory” because of the limitations of the citizenry. Others say voices seemingly yearn for an epistocracy where the knowledgeable decide. Thus, the experts agree: contemporary democracies are suffering; the reason is either too little or too much citizen participation.


    Love the fairy tales and folf theory bits

    Where NZ is at the moment methinks

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim23 View Post
    Are you implying those voting who lack abilities etc might vote for Labour?
    seeing Labour appear to have the best 'fairy tales' suppose that's what I'm saying
    “What the wise man does in the beginning, the fool does in the end”

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    You had better back that inflammatory statement up w69. You are sounding like a smear foot soldier sent out as cannon fodder.

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    First 100 days ? Since when have Labour got anyone who can count up to a hundred?

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    Only need to count to three craic
    The next Government: 3 options

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