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Thread: National - FFS!

  1. #1661
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Skies View Post
    I think Finance spokesperson Paul Goldsmith's mistakes right at the start of Collins tenure as leader, which immediately undermined National's so called strength & point of difference , managing the economy, & tripped up Judith Collin's momentum dead in its tracks, added significantly to a party which looked a shambles. There is always a honeymoon period around a new leader but Collins was having to defend own goals right from the start.
    Collins is too polarizing.
    She also ran a very negative campaign, not to mention the lies.
    How long before they have yet another leader?

  2. #1662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    As just about every thread has posts overtly promoting political parties of some sort and can be readily accessed on Election Day - surely the whole site should have been taken down for the duration of Election Day? Just like hoardings and billboards have to be physically removed.
    Voting started over 2 weeks ago yet advertising was allowed then too.
    Time has moved on since the rules were put in place.

  3. #1663
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobby41 View Post
    Voting started over 2 weeks ago yet advertising was allowed then too.
    Time has moved on since the rules were put in place.
    Well of course it has. I agree. I was responding to This post:
    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    I'd like to remind people that today we are not supposed to do any electioneering, by NZ law. This was brought up on this website by the owner a couple of elections ago and I suggest we adhere to it today.
    We live in a wonderful democracy people. Have a good weekend :-)
    If you cannot make a post seemingly favouring one Party over another - on the day of the election - then what about all the other posts previously made and still available on the site? Surely like election hoardings everything available needs to be removed? In other words the whole site should be taken off-line on the day of the election...
    Last edited by Bjauck; 18-10-2020 at 04:09 PM.

  4. #1664
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    I have spent some time perusing the profiles of new MPs entering Parliament from all parties. Many do have interesting backgrounds and experiences, certainly diverse. One thing I took out was that the baby boomer era in politics is at an end. I would also make the observation that if you are male and over sixty your opinions do not matter nor canvassed, and like Victorian children are to be seen and not heard

  5. #1665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Pepper View Post
    I have spent some time perusing the profiles of new MPs entering Parliament from all parties. Many do have interesting backgrounds and experiences, certainly diverse. One thing I took out was that the baby boomer era in politics is at an end. I would also make the observation that if you are male and over sixty your opinions do not matter nor canvassed, and like Victorian children are to be seen and not heard
    I totally disagree. The actions our PM has taken in the past six months have been predicated to a large extent on protecting the health of the vulnerable and elderly. So younger NZers will now have the responsibility to rebuild the economy.

    If there has been a change, perhaps we have become slightly less of a gerontocracy and younger adults are demanding a greater say in the battles, real and figurative, in which they become the cannon fodder. The young also will have to live with the consequences of environmental damage wrought by the older generations. The consequences are already obvious.

    Has there been a decline in the average age of MPs over the years? Perhaps it just seems that way? For example the average of MPs in the UK House of Commons has been about 50 since 1979.

    The average age of MPs in Australia is about 51 and this compares with the average age of 48 back in 1901.
    https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliam...p1314/43rdParl

    Of course there has been a change in the number of women in politics - as society lifts discriminatory practices.

    I guess left wingers tend to be younger and conservative right wingers tend to be older. So a shift left in an election may bring in a younger average age for the MPs.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 19-10-2020 at 07:04 AM.

  6. #1666
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim23 View Post
    Gee - you must be so busy it takes under 5 minutes to vote!!
    Hmmm, would I rather take 5 minutes out of my working week or 5 minutes out of my weekend?



    And yes - Kids under 5 years old running around the house, cut me some slack buddy


    Anybody else blown away by how much Labour actually won by?
    We all knew Labour would get in, but just by how much - Presumably nobody expected overwhelming landslide?
    Last edited by Stumpynuts; 19-10-2020 at 07:22 AM. Reason: Asked further quesiton

  7. #1667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpynuts View Post
    Hmmm, would I rather take 5 minutes out of my working week or 5 minutes out of my weekend?



    And yes - Kids under 5 years old running around the house, cut me some slack buddy


    Anybody else blown away by how much Labour actually won by?
    We all knew Labour would get in, but just by how much - Presumably nobody expected overwhelming landslide?
    Was interesting how the strong rural typically national electorates decided to give labour the mandate to bypass the greens. Smart voting from the rural sector.

  8. #1668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpynuts View Post
    ..
    Anybody else blown away by how much Labour actually won by?
    We all knew Labour would get in, but just by how much - Presumably nobody expected overwhelming landslide?
    I thought Labour would get the proportion of votes that they did. Collins seemed to act desperately in the latter stages with an attack approach as opposed to positively promoting National policies.

    Labour got 49% of the vote, yet 53% of the seats.

  9. #1669
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    I guess left wingers tend to be younger and conservative right wingers tend to be older. So a shift left in an election may bring in a younger average age for the MPs.
    Some commentator said last week that they thought people become more right wing as they age.
    I seem to be the opposite - as I grow older I recognise the inequalities more and want to eradicate them where possible.

  10. #1670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Labour got 49% of the vote, yet 53% of the seats.
    8% of the vote was wasted on the 'also rans' and gets re-distributed to the others.

  11. #1671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    I thought Labour would get the proportion of votes that they did. Collins seemed to act desperately in the latter stages with an attack approach as opposed to positively promoting National policies.

    Labour got 49% of the vote, yet 53% of the seats.
    They got 49% of the total votes cast, but all parties end up higher than initial count - because ultimately it is the percentage of the effective votes that matters. so the waste votes (those votes for parties that don't make the 5% threshold) are discounted.
    Last edited by fungus pudding; 19-10-2020 at 08:33 AM.

  12. #1672
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobby41 View Post
    8% of the vote was wasted on the 'also rans' and gets re-distributed to the others.
    I understand the system. I just had not taken into account that my 49% prediction for Labour could bring in 53% of the MPs - that there would be so much of the total vote that would be under the threshold for parliamentary representation.

    I think the threshold for party representation in parliament should drop to 2% (or the % needed to bring in two MPs.)

    The Labour "Landslide" is under 50% of the vote.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 19-10-2020 at 08:42 AM.

  13. #1673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    I understand the system. I just had not taken into account that my 49% prediction for Labour could bring in 53% of the MPs - that there would be so much of the total vote that would be under the threshold for parliamentary representation. I think the threshold for party representation in parliament should drop to 2% (or the % needed to bring in two MPs.)
    Why don't we go the whole hog and give every party two MP's for starters!


  14. #1674
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    Quote Originally Posted by macduffy View Post
    Why don't we go the whole hog and give every party two MP's for starters!

    Why do you think that my suggestion to increase proportional representation of votes warrants a ridiculous suggestion?

  15. #1675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Why do you think that my suggestion to increase proportional representation of votes warrants a ridiculous suggestion?
    Because we could fiddle endlessly with the criteria for representation. Why 2%, why not 1.5% or 3% or 4%?

  16. #1676
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    Quote Originally Posted by macduffy View Post
    Because we could fiddle endlessly with the criteria for representation. Why 2%, why not 1.5% or 3% or 4%?
    NZ's constitution has been a process of evolution, Humans like to improve things. Hence introduction of MMP in the first place.

    Of course it could be any of those - time for a review of the original set % threshold along with review of the length of term of parliament.

  17. #1677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpynuts View Post
    Anybody else blown away by how much Labour actually won by?
    We all knew Labour would get in, but just by how much - Presumably nobody expected overwhelming landslide?
    Yes, Jacinda Ardern was blown away by how much Labour actually won, she did not expect it.

    Another surprise was the support for the Greens, which generally wasn’t picked up by the media – Mike Hoskings in this interview with Jacinda Adern on 12 October doubted that the Greens would get back into parliament.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/electi...XTKIIKIESTX7U/

  18. #1678
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    Strategic voting by National voters to keep the Greens out - mission accomplished.

  19. #1679
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynot View Post
    Was interesting how the strong rural typically national electorates decided to give labour the mandate to bypass the greens. Smart voting from the rural sector.
    Certainly some interesting trends re voting in this election.

    Election 2020: Labour wins party vote in every South Island electorate.
    Nationwide, the only electorates where National lead the party vote were Taranaki-King Country, Waikato, Epsom and Tāmaki.
    Labour even lead the party vote in Judith Collins' own electorate of Papakura by a margin of 434 votes.
    Despite not leading in the party vote, the National Party still managed to win the Invercargill, Southland, Waitaki, Selwyn, Kaikōura and Waimakariri electorate seats in the South Island.


    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/electi...PY4NVO42JWRNQ/

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    Be interesting to see how Christopher Luxon gets on in Botany electorate, seeing as Jamie-Lee Ross has been laughed out of the electorate and on national television.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...ional-audience

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