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Thread: National - FFS!

  1. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    There are varieties of welfare available to help people pay ingoing for a rental. Not necessary to be on a benefit. Loans, grants, TAS. Possibly Sustaining Tenancies initiative that is designed to support tenants to stay in their rental if they are in danger of being given notice to terminate.
    If you are on a benefit or the minimum wage it probably won’t cover your living expenses, let alone having any money left over to save for a rainy day, or a bond.

    https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/housing/move-house/bond-and-rent-in-advance/bond-grant.html#null
    Bond grant. If you're moving into a private rental and don’t have enough money to pay bond, we may be able to help.
    We can pay up to the lesser amount of either:
    4 weeks of rent, or
    $2,000.
    You don’t have to pay this money back.
    You can only get one bond grant over 12 months.
    If your application’s approved, we’ll pay the bond directly to the landlord.

  2. #1012
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    https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/1222...democracy?rm=a
    National's identity crisis is bad for NZ's democracy.

    Labour’s brand is that of a party that essentially is prepared to spend more on the less well-off in society. The leader represents the brand and in Ardern Labour has hit the jackpot. She is competent and compassionate.


    But what does National stand for? We know it’s a conservative party. Conservatism is about putting a brake on radical change and scepticism about any grand ideas to alter human nature. It represents (over others) the doers and producers – farmers, business, the self-employed, property owners, professionals – who rely on clarity, order, prudent spending and efficiency in government.

    Because it believes it represents substantial people, National presents itself as the natural party of government. It sells itself as the best team to be running the country, better than the other lot anyway. But the party is failing on all counts. The team it suggests should be running the country looks decidedly clueless and splintered.

    National has been caught out by a shift in public thinking or attitude. The country has joined the world in a shift towards the Left’s view on race, equality and the wrongs of the past. It may not be much of a shift but there is no going back.

    Although National promotes itself as the party of growth, growth has also lost a lot of its magic. Growth at what cost, comes the cry.

    Like most parties, it is in favour of everything that is good and against everything that is bad. Labour would have no argument with a single one of its listed values except maybe with limited government. And limited government doesn’t look particularly pertinent at the moment. The pandemic has called for the sort of government intervention in the economy and elsewhere that the country hasn’t seen for generations.
    Governments around the world are spending like crazy to prevent their economies from falling into depression and keep people employed. National can hardly go to the people saying it will rein in government spending and activity because that offends its founding values.
    Restating National’s reason for existence is no easy task.

  3. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by moka View Post
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/1222...democracy?rm=a
    National's identity crisis is bad for NZ's democracy.

    Labour’s brand is that of a party that essentially is prepared to spend more on the less well-off in society. The leader represents the brand and in Ardern Labour has hit the jackpot. She is competent and compassionate.


    But what does National stand for? We know it’s a conservative party. Conservatism is about putting a brake on radical change and scepticism about any grand ideas to alter human nature. It represents (over others) the doers and producers – farmers, business, the self-employed, property owners, professionals – who rely on clarity, order, prudent spending and efficiency in government.

    Because it believes it represents substantial people, National presents itself as the natural party of government. It sells itself as the best team to be running the country, better than the other lot anyway. But the party is failing on all counts. The team it suggests should be running the country looks decidedly clueless and splintered.

    National has been caught out by a shift in public thinking or attitude. The country has joined the world in a shift towards the Left’s view on race, equality and the wrongs of the past. It may not be much of a shift but there is no going back.

    Although National promotes itself as the party of growth, growth has also lost a lot of its magic. Growth at what cost, comes the cry.

    Like most parties, it is in favour of everything that is good and against everything that is bad. Labour would have no argument with a single one of its listed values except maybe with limited government. And limited government doesn’t look particularly pertinent at the moment. The pandemic has called for the sort of government intervention in the economy and elsewhere that the country hasn’t seen for generations.
    Governments around the world are spending like crazy to prevent their economies from falling into depression and keep people employed. National can hardly go to the people saying it will rein in government spending and activity because that offends its founding values.
    Restating National’s reason for existence is no easy task.
    You make some good points I must admit, but believe you have missed some glaring omissions also.
    Like how are we going to finance this spend up.
    This govt is big on throwing money about and given the circumstances some of these actions are justified but I don't think they have two clues on what drives an economy or how to manage it.
    Last edited by ynot; 02-08-2020 at 08:45 PM.

  4. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynot View Post
    You make some good points I must admit, but believe you have missed some glaring omissions also.
    Like how are we going to finance this spend up.
    This govt is big on throwing money about and given the circumstances some of these actions are justified but I don't think they have two clues on what drives an economy or how to manage it.
    That's exactly what the Left's (& moka's) utopia consist of. As he says the World has moved to the Left. It has moved to Governments spending incomprehensible amounts of money that it has not spent one hour on considering how it should pay back. This is the "new World" of living in an illusion of economic reality..
    With current projected NZ Government forecasts of around $140B of extra debt, or an estimated $ 80,000 per household, the illusion this is somehow a wealth transfer from the "haves" to "have nots" is absolutely nuts as it will not be the much maligned "baby boomers" that pay for this squander. Instead it will be the next couple of generations that will be burdened with it in the form of hugely increased taxes and reduced Government services.
    That's the sad reality of this madness.
    Last edited by iceman; 03-08-2020 at 05:55 AM.

  5. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    That's exactly what the Left's (& moka's) utopia consist of. As he says the World has moved to the Left. It has moved to Governments spending incomprehensible amounts of money that it has not spent one hour on considering how it should pay back. This is the "new World" of living in an illusion of economic reality..
    With current projected NZ Government forecasts of around $140B of extra debt, or an estimated $ 80,000 per household, the illusion this is somehow a wealth transfer from the "haves" to "have nots" is absolutely nuts as it will not be the much maligned "baby boomers" that pay for this squander. Instead it will be the next couple of generations that will be burdened with it in the form of hugely increased taxes and reduced Government services.
    That's the sad reality of this madness.
    So the answer is somewhere in the middle.
    National seems to be losing their more liberal MPs so heading further away from the middle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dobby41 View Post
    So the answer is somewhere in the middle.
    National seems to be losing their more liberal MPs so heading further away from the middle.
    Agree that the answer, as always, is somewhere in the middle. The road NZ normally travels down.

  7. #1017
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    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12353188

    This passes for election coverage by NZ media of issues pertinent to NZers making the right decision as to who to vote?

  8. #1018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12353188

    This passes for election coverage by NZ media of issues pertinent to NZers making the right decision as to who to vote?
    Well, in the context of all the inept and disgraced MP's National did select over the last handful of years (like e.g. Ross, Walker, & Falloon) and considering that some of the older hands of National seem to have been similarly flawed (Boag anyone) without the party being able to cleanse the filth, does this article not inspire any confidence in the robustness and integrity of Nationals candidate selection process.

    It feels like a party which was too long in power and unfortunately they did not use the last three years in opposition to improve - quite the opposite. They used this time to get rid of the better candidates they still had.

    I think it would be good they get some more years on the opposition benches to give them a chance to sort out their processes and get rid of all the filth. I hope they use this time - NZ does need and deserve a capable opposition with high integrity!

    Discl: Voted in the past more often for National (or ACT) than for any other party while living in NZ. However - unlikely to follow this pattern this time.
    Last edited by BlackPeter; 03-08-2020 at 03:48 PM.
    ----
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  9. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Well, in the context of all the inept and disgraced MP's National did select over the last handful of years (like e.g. Ross, Walker, & Falloon) and considering that some of the older hands of National seem to have been similarly flawed (Boag anyone) without the party being able to cleanse the filth, does this article not inspire any confidence in the robustness and integrity of Nationals candidate selection process.

    It feels like a party which was too long in power and unfortunately they did not use the last three years in opposition to improve - quite the opposite. They used this time to get rid of the better candidates they still had.

    I think it would be good they get some more years on the opposition benches to give them a chance to sort out their processes and get rid of all the filth. I hope they use this time - NZ does need and deserve a capable opposition with high integrity!

    Discl: Voted in the past more often for National (or ACT) than for any other party while living in NZ. However - unlikely to follow this pattern this time.


    Labour's problem is beyond Ardern, Robertson and a couple of others there is simply no talent. It's pretty obvious when you see the likes of Twyfod, and Davis way up in their ranks what their problem is. I don't like their coalition mates either. And I hate to think what tax schemes they're dreaming up. Death duties? Gift duties? Or a brand new surprise.

  10. #1020
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Labour's problem is beyond Ardern, Robertson and a couple of others there is simply no talent. It's pretty obvious when you see the likes of Twyfod, and Davis way up in their ranks what their problem is. I don't like their coalition mates either. And I hate to think what tax schemes they're dreaming up. Death duties? Gift duties? Or a brand new surprise.
    Property tax & estate duties to start with - envy taxes so that they can breed more beneficiaries and for longer.

    Notice how Comrade Cindy & her team of incompetents duck & dive & deflect to the need to manage the pandemic whenever they are asked about taxes?
    Last edited by Balance; 03-08-2020 at 06:01 PM.

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