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Thread: National - FFS!

  1. #1061
    Legend Balance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Skies View Post
    So the way I see it, ACT's policy 'to repeal this years Arm's Legislation Act, including the threat of a firearms register,' sounds like they propose revoking the firearm register.

    However, whatever the detail, & even if it was in part, there is no doubt they want to heavily water down & soften the recently introduced gun laws, a vote grabber with some fanatics in the gun lobby, the gangs & some criminals.

    As we have seen with tragic results, guns shops & the internet provide devices to alter guns from one category to another anyway so having any exemptions is naive policy based on some academic principal rather than real life experience.
    Good on ACT.

    They know that their gun policy will never be implemented, just as NZF and Greens know some of their extreme policies will never be implemented.

    Get the votes and get into a position of power. That’s the political game.
    Last edited by Balance; Yesterday at 07:44 PM.

  2. #1062
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Skies View Post
    Here's a copy & paste from ACT's policy manifesto which states they will do away with a gun register which the police want. Obviously the gangs & criminals don't want a register, makes it far easier to get hold of weapons.

    The current law has cross party support from all parties except ACT & remember submissions were heard from everybody & apart from the Police including the Gun shop owner & lobbyist Mr Tipple ( indicted in the US for buying large numbers of guns using false ID & also charged at Los Angeles Airport for trying to carry 29 guns & 340 rounds of live ammunition on an aircraft & spent 21 months in jail) who frequently appeared on TV at the submission process.
    [B][/COLOR]
    Whatever ACT does, it does not have blood dripping from its hands unlike NZF who opposed any attempt at gun control until the massacre in Christchurch.

    Read and learn:

    “In the past, New Zealand First has opposed law changes, with Ron Mark being an avid shooter and gun owner.

    Following the 2017 inquiry, the party said the recommendations in the report “target legitimate ownership of legally held firearms by licensed users, importers, and dealers, and recommends further restrictions on them by way of laws and regulations relating to them and their firearms”.

  3. #1063
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    Because it would give you some actual credibility and would contribute to a much healthier and more constructive debate with the rest of us, than the constant ranting and ceaseless repetition of the same few catch phrases you’ve been contributing up till now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    I have no problem articulating exactly my expectations of whichever government comes to power in Sept 2020. But why should I (or anyone) waste time when there are posters here busy making excuses and attempting to shift the blame every which way to every other party (for broken promises & failed policies) but the current government?

  4. #1064
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    Because it would give you some actual credibility and would contribute to a much healthier and more constructive debate with the rest of us, than the constant ranting and ceaseless repetition of the same few catch phrases you’ve been contributing up till now.
    This is a politics thread, not ECON103. People can have opinions and offer as much or as little as they like. Continually demanding that someone else writes a 3 year economic treatise? Time to give it up.

    But posters are free to write their own and post it. Nothing wrong with that.

  5. #1065
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    Deleted .....

    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    This is a politics thread, not ECON103. People can have opinions and offer as much or as little as they like. Continually demanding that someone else writes a 3 year economic treatise? Time to give it up.

    But posters are free to write their own and post it. Nothing wrong with that.
    Last edited by justakiwi; Today at 08:42 AM. Reason: Because “Be the bigger person”

  6. #1066
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    Because it would give you some actual credibility and would contribute to a much healthier and more constructive debate with the rest of us, than the constant ranting and ceaseless repetition of the same few catch phrases you’ve been contributing up till now.
    It is not possible for minds to meet when one side is pre-occupied with making excuses for failures rather than confronting the facts.

    And the failures to achieve anything of substance by this government after it made huge promises to get elected are nothing short of betrayal & deceit.

  7. #1067
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    It is ambiguous. They want to stop a full register; not do away with the gun register.
    Maybe, maybe not. However - their leading sentence in their published policy (and that's probably more than most people read) clearly talks about "the threat of a firearm register". They don't say a "the threat of a full register" or a "the threat of a category A firearms register".

    While I still don't understand how any firearms register could be a threat to anybody but to crooks, given that we have this discussion provides already clear proof that ACT is at best obfuscating what they want to do re the firearms register.

    Given that this is based on their policies their only priority for the elections (repealing the firearms act and protecting whomever against the "threat" of a firearms register) is it quite disappointing that they didn't even made absolutely clear what they really want to do ... maybe they just want the votes from the trigger happy gun lobby to cheat them afterwards?

    Whatever it is - their values seem to have changed and are not anymore consistent with mine ...
    ----
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  8. #1068
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Maybe, maybe not. However - their leading sentence in their published policy (and that's probably more than most people read) clearly talks about "the threat of a firearm register". They don't say a "the threat of a full register" or a "the threat of a category A firearms register".

    While I still don't understand how any firearms register could be a threat to anybody but to crooks, given that we have this discussion provides already clear proof that ACT is at best obfuscating what they want to do re the firearms register.

    Given that this is based on their policies their only priority for the elections (repealing the firearms act and protecting whomever against the "threat" of a firearms register) is it quite disappointing that they didn't even made absolutely clear what they really want to do ... maybe they just want the votes from the trigger happy gun lobby to cheat them afterwards?

    Whatever it is - their values seem to have changed and are not anymore consistent with mine ...
    Is there any party that keeps anyone perfectly happy? NZ1st, Labour and Greens have all disqualified themselves from my options this election. Still waiting to hear more from Nats, so they remain a possibility, but by process of elimination it looks like Act will be my choice.

  9. #1069
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Is there any party that keeps anyone perfectly happy? NZ1st, Labour and Greens have all disqualified themselves from my options this election. Still waiting to hear more from Nats, so they remain a possibility, but by process of elimination it looks like Act will be my choice.
    Yep there is no shining beacon for me. It all depends on red lines and which issues are the most important.

  10. #1070
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    It is not possible for minds to meet when one side is pre-occupied with making excuses for failures rather than confronting the facts.

    And the failures to achieve anything of substance by this government after it made huge promises to get elected are nothing short of betrayal & deceit.
    And it is not possible for minds to meet when the other side is pre-occupied with focusing on failures rather than facing the facts.
    And the posts with the constant focus on the failures by this government after it made huge promises to get elected are nothing but boring and repetitive, and a process of dumbing us down. How about some stimulating discussion?

  11. #1071
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    Quote Originally Posted by moka View Post
    And it is not possible for minds to meet when the other side is pre-occupied with focusing on failures rather than facing the facts.
    And the posts with the constant focus on the failures by this government after it made huge promises to get elected are nothing but boring and repetitive, and a process of dumbing us down. How about some stimulating discussion?
    You can start by explaining how the government can get its promises so very very wrong?

  12. #1072
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    You are either incapable of understanding what moka or I are saying/asking you, or you are being a PITA for the sake of it.

    As I said in my first post - tell us ​what you want from whichever party is in power, not what you’re unhappy about. We know what you’re unhappy about, so you don’t need to keep repeating it. It’s not rocket science.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    You can start by explaining how the government can get its promises so very very wrong?

  13. #1073
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    You are either incapable of understanding what moka or I are saying/asking you, or you are being a PITA for the sake of it.

    As I said in my first post - tell us ​what you want from whichever party is in power, not what you’re unhappy about. We know what you’re unhappy about, so you don’t need to keep repeating it. It’s not rocket science.
    As I have explained, happy to do so once Moka or you explain how a government can make such huge promises and fail so totally to deliver.

    Then, I will give you the solutions.

  14. #1074
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    No. I’m not playing your childish little games anymore Balance. I invited you to have a mature discussion with me, as an alternative to the backwards and forwards arguments we have had in the past, as I actually felt bad about some of those. But you are clearly not interested.

    I have better things to do with my time that are much more rewarding and much less stressful.

    I’m out.



    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    As I have explained, happy to do so once Moka or you explain how a government can make such huge promises and fail so totally to deliver.

    Then, I will give you the solutions.

  15. #1075
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    No. I’m not playing your childish little games anymore Balance. I invited you to have a mature discussion with me, as an alternative to the backwards and forwards arguments we have had in the past, as I actually felt bad about some of those. But you are clearly not interested.

    I have better things to do with my time that are much more rewarding and much less stressful.

    I’m out.
    That's odd. You want someone to do a whole bunch of work to support their position but when asked to reciprocate you refuse, how does that work? I don't think that you can defend that the current government has failed to deliver on quite a lot of what they promised, like most do actually, but be honest they didn't just miss by a wee bit! Luckily I suspect that nobody really believed what they promised in the first place.

    I fear that this last point is actually the key one, promise big, get into power, worry about it later. Like a few on here I am honestly struggling to find someone to vote for this election

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    I don’t want him to do a whole bunch of work on anything. I simply want him to stop whinging and tell me what he would like to see our government (regardless of party) do in terms of policy or promises. He has been ranting and raving for months, trashing our PM and current government so surely the least he should be able to do is verbalise what it is he thinks they should be doing.

    If you want the “kids in the sandpit” answer to your comment re me “refusing to reciprocate” - I asked him first but he responded with a “you show me yours then I’ll show you mine.” We could play that game till the cows come home. Once again, for those who seem unable to grasp it - I was trying to be the bigger person and initiate a mature debate instead of losing my cool with Balance (as eventually always happens). Why on earth I bothered, I have no idea.

    So yes, I am out, and Balance is back on ignore. I simply don’t need or want this constant BS anymore.





    Quote Originally Posted by jmsnz View Post
    That's odd. You want someone to do a whole bunch of work to support their position but when asked to reciprocate you refuse, how does that work? I don't think that you can defend that the current government has failed to deliver on quite a lot of what they promised, like most do actually, but be honest they didn't just miss by a wee bit! Luckily I suspect that nobody really believed what they promised in the first place.

    I fear that this last point is actually the key one, promise big, get into power, worry about it later. Like a few on here I am honestly struggling to find someone to vote for this election

  17. #1077
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    I’d like the parties to lay down where they are taking the country in a Covid world. What’s their plan to maximise the NZ advantage of being one of the only Covid free(ish) countries in the world?

    I’d vote for a party that didn’t open borders, concentrated on keeping us Covid Free, let the entrepreneurs come to us and transition us from a tourist service destination into a high tech, highly skilled team of 5 million.

    I’ve not seen any inspiring vision, it’s all a bit local council atm.

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