National - FFS!

[Balance]

Obviously the border must improve. Let’s hope that there is someone with expert advice as to how this can be put into effect.

You had said that “nobody could possibly have done worse than this government” so that implied you had been making a comparison assessment with other people. However now you say that comparisons are not valid!

My post there is in DIRECT response to the CYA excuse posted by you :

I am sure Simon Bridges would have done a better job sorting out and overseeing government departments. Yeah right!

Do you seriously assess the effectiveness of a leader (who has failed in his/her job) by referring to a competitor who missed out on the job?

By that measure, CEOS of all companies which suffer spectacular falls in earnings and fortunes can simply refer to the unsuccessful applicants for said job and say the unsuccessful applicants would have done worse.

Thing is - you have no way of knowing so it's only fair to critic the one in charge and deal with the here and now.

In this case, who could have done a worse job than this government in its failings in protecting the border? Hard to imagine anyone half intelligent and competent doing a worse job - because of the double failures at border protection. They have learnt nothing from the first debacle and in failing to learn, they have placed the whole of NZ at risk. How bad is that?

[Balance]

I am not sure why you expect a perfect response to this epidemic. Has any democracy achieved that? Anyway good on you if you expect that National would have done better. Perhaps even if they may have ignore government department heads’ advice? That is democracy.

Try Taiwan.

The island country is situated just 130 kms from mainland China and has a large population that works in the neighbouring country. It was the most likely to get infected by the virus.

From 50 cases on March 15 it quickly rose to 422 on April 20, but then managed to flatten its COVID-19 rise curve, with the current figure of 480 cases.

It recorded less than 60 cases in the last almost four months.

What did Taiwan do?

First it reacted quickly and second its efforts were directed by experts. Besides, it never opted for a lockdown, so there has been no major economic fallout.

Schools remained open throughout the outbreak, as did offices, restaurants and malls. Today, the country is donating masks and other resources to affected countries.

And yes, Taiwan is a democracy. It is actually quite a revelation to observe how robust the debates in their legislative chamber and election campaigns are.

[BlackPeter]

In this case, who could have done a worse job than this government in its failings in protecting the border? Hard to imagine anyone half intelligent and competent doing a worse job - because of the double failures at border protection. They have learnt nothing from the first debacle and in failing to learn, they have placed the whole of NZ at risk. How bad is that?

One does not need a lot of imagination to think about governments doing a worse job. Actually - just look across the ditch (Australia) or on the other side across the ocean (US and ALL middle and South American countries with the exception of Uruguay, who did a similar job to our government).

Actually - there is only a small number of governments I can think off who did a better job related to managing Covid-19. China, Taiwan and Vietnam spring to mind. There are some others, but not sure whether I trust their numbers.

Hyperbole and plain wrong statements do not increase your credibility. Same thing as for Trump.

[Bjauck]

My post there is in DIRECT response to the CYA excuse posted by you :



Do you seriously assess the effectiveness of a leader (who has failed in his/her job) by referring to a competitor who missed out on the job?

By that measure, CEOS of all companies which suffer spectacular falls in earnings and fortunes can simply refer to the unsuccessful applicants for said job and say the unsuccessful applicants would have done worse.

Thing is - you have no way of knowing so it's only fair to critic the one in charge and deal with the here and now.

In this case, who could have done a worse job than this government in its failings in protecting the border? Hard to imagine anyone half intelligent and competent doing a worse job - because of the double failures at border protection. They have learnt nothing from the first debacle and in failing to learn, they have placed the whole of NZ at risk. How bad is that?

Why make posts on the National Party thread if you do not want a discussion on how The National Party and its leaders may have performed In comparison. Otherwise discussion of Government policy alone is irrelevant to this thread.

[Bjauck]

Try Taiwan.

The island country is situated just 130 kms from mainland China and has a large population that works in the neighbouring country. It was the most likely to get infected by the virus.

From 50 cases on March 15 it quickly rose to 422 on April 20, but then managed to flatten its COVID-19 rise curve, with the current figure of 480 cases.

It recorded less than 60 cases in the last almost four months.

What did Taiwan do?

First it reacted quickly and second its efforts were directed by experts. Besides, it never opted for a lockdown, so there has been no major economic fallout.

Schools remained open throughout the outbreak, as did offices, restaurants and malls. Today, the country is donating masks and other resources to affected countries.

And yes, Taiwan is a democracy. It is actually quite a revelation to observe how robust the debates in their legislative chamber and election campaigns are.

True, Taiwan, which some regard as an independent country although that is disputed, a ”flawed democracy” , has done well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

[Balance]

True, Taiwan, which some regard as an independent country although that is disputed, a ”flawed democracy” , has done well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

It is more of a democracy than US at the present moment!

[Bjauck]

It is more of a democracy than US at the present moment!

We are 4th on that list! Granted, Collins is not yet PM so she has not had time to make us fall below Taiwan’s position

[moka]

I agree that both parties have made their mistakes over the years, and always will. Equally they have both done good and worthwhile things, leaving NZ as a highly desirable country in which to live. As a swinging voter I always vote in the most effective way to block my lowest preference. This election my least preferred party will be Labour. They certainly can provide us with the best Prime Minister - but they are short of talent with the exception of a small handful of others. National is the opposite. A reasonably competent bunch - but I'm not impressed with the leader. But overall they offer more talent than Labour, and the best way to get Nat winning, thereby denying Labour, is to vote Act. That's looking like my likely vote for 2020.

Which National MPs do you think are competent/talented?

[moka]

In this case, who could have done a worse job than this government in its failings in protecting the border? Hard to imagine anyone half intelligent and competent doing a worse job - because of the double failures at border protection. They have learnt nothing from the first debacle and in failing to learn, they have placed the whole of NZ at risk. How bad is that?

Here's the answer to who could do a worse job.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122398429/let-the-market-decide-who-gets-coronavirus
WARNING SATIRE NOT FACT. Let the market decide who gets coronavirus.

The recently elected National/ACT government’s policy has been declared a success – financially.
The same can be said for ACT’s recent call for private companies to “safely take over managed isolation and quarantine”, with massive profits made by private quarantine operators such as Serco winging their way overseas.
The policy was recently rammed through Parliament, even though a survey showed that two-thirds of New Zealanders supported the strict, state-run, quarantine conditions of the previous Labour government.
Our message to the security guards is simple – Don’t Screw the Crew,” said Iain Lees-Galloway and Andrew Falloon, co-owners of New Zealand’s leading workplace relations consultancy.
Health Minister Chris Bishop and Deputy Prime Minister David Seymour were unrepentant about the alleged failure of the private system. “Our PQOM (Public Quarantine Operating Model) is a brilliant model in theory, that is working perfectly in Western Fiordland and on Antipodes Island,” said Seymour. “It’s just that the companies in Wellington are doing a terrible job,” added Bishop.
“It’s a very simple equation,” said local business advocate Hone Takapuna. “The business sector gets the profits from opening the borders, but the taxpayer pays the cost. For a businessperson, it’s a no-brainer.”

[BlackPeter]

Which National MPs do you think are competent/talented?

That's a good question. I could have called some previously - but they all leaving parliament and gave their valedictory speech already.

Obviously - there are new unknown names, but whether they turn into disasters like e.g. Watson or Faloon or into highly talented MP's like Nicky Kay or Amy Adams is at this stage unknown. Given that Nationals candidate selection process seems to be highly random at best: high risk to vote for them!

Nationals Top politicians these days are a sad bunch. Collins is a bully and Brownlee proved his incompetence beyond doubt in the Christchurch re-build. As well, his latest dirty politics episode was devastating. A losing combination of ineptness with a questionable character ... better keep away from any government position.