National - FFS!

[iceman]

Already gone

1. Sir Bill English
2. Steven Joyce
3. Jonathan Coleman
4. Jami-Lee Ross
5. Christopher Finlayson
6. Tutehounuku (Nuk) Korako

Leaving at the election

1. Alastair Scott
2. Nathan Guy
3. Maggie Barry
4. Sarah Dowie
5. Nicky Wagner
6. David Carter
7. Anne Tolley
8. Paula Bennett
9. Hamish Walker
10. Jian Yang
11. Nikki Kaye
12. Amy Adams

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...-election.html

For the list of those already gone they were mainly senior ministers fom the previous administration. This is very common, same thing happened after the 9 year stint of Helen Clark.
The list of those leaving at the election also has people that have been in Parliament a long time and done their dash, such as Anne Tolley, David Carter, Nathan Guy and Nicky Wagner.
In my view Paula, Amy and Nikki have all left because of the fallout from leadership changes and all 3 are a great loss to National. The rest of them haven't really achieved anything and know their futures as MPs are bleak so good riddance and time to get fresh faces to replace them.

[Balance]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-in...g-expectations

All starts with good leadership and that’s what National has now with Collins.

Let the battle begin.

[Panda-NZ-]

In my view Paula, Amy and Nikki have all left because of the fallout from leadership changes and all 3 are a great loss to National. The rest of them haven't really achieved anything and know their futures as MPs are bleak so good riddance and time to get fresh faces to replace them.

When women were already under-represented in the Nats you have to account for that also.

Accounting for their representation it's mainly women who have left recently.

[iceman]

When women were already under-represented in the Nats you have to account for that also.

Accounting for their representation it's mainly women who have left recently.

Like I said, those 3 are in my view a great loss for National. But not because they are women, simply because they have been competent and popular MPs.
I most certainly don't want quotas like Labour. It has proven to be disastrous.

[artemis]

Like I said, those 3 are in my view a great loss for National. But not because they are women, simply because they have been competent and popular MPs.
I most certainly don't want quotas like Labour. It has proven to be disastrous.

Ms Bennett may well have been allocated a senior post under the new leadership, like Mr Bridges. Still, looks like she rather presciently decided Mr Muller was not her style though of course nobody expected his early step down.

[Blue Skies]

Like I said, those 3 are in my view a great loss for National. But not because they are women, simply because they have been competent and popular MPs.
I most certainly don't want quotas like Labour. It has proven to be disastrous.

Having in the past voted both National & Labour & as a swinging voter, I'm curious why you think its been disastrous under Labour & wasn't under National.
Knowing a fair cross section of people in all socio eco groups, everyone seems to be doing reasonably well. Those whose jobs are gone, like pilots & airline staff seem to have accepted the reality of the world wide Pandemic & quickly adjusted into finding new careers even if it's a step down. The sharemarket is booming, teachers & nurses are better paid & its looking a more realistic career after years of shortages, the Ski fields are crowded with visitors, the rugby's miles better, the Malls are busy, online retail is surging, etc. Obviously tourism sector badly affected but that's the new reality for many places in the world.

At the end of National's term there were so many problems esp in Health, Education & Housing. It was generally recognised (even by Bill English) that National had underfunded & let too many things deteriorate to the point of broken, & had left their large pre election spending program to fix them too late.

The economy was largely based on massive immigration, the exploitation of cheap foreign workers (esp in tourism & agriculture sector) & the exploitation of International students (worthless courses & an army of people to fill cramped sub standard rental apartments which few NZ'ers would put up with).

Auckland was broken, with rapid massive immigration without the supporting infrastructure (which is why its ironical to hear National now claiming they are the party of infrastructure). Roads & motorways jammed, huge traffic congestion , school rolls bursting at the seams without the classrooms to provide for all the new students, shocking hospital waiting lists for cancer & other serious health problems, estimated Auckland was short of 70,000 homes for the increased population, homeless people sleeping & defecating in the doorways of our main retail stores, chronic teacher & nurses shortages due to low pay & unrealistic work loads, huge & rapidly growing income inequality, outrageous 3rd world diseases like rheumatic fever crippling young children, hospital & school buildings leaking, increasing gambling addiction with rapid proliferation of pokie machines & alcohol outlets in vulnerable communities, the farcically appalling SkyCity deal, the blind eye to the free buses & McDoanld's vouchers SkyCity was using to entice vulnerable people from South Auckland suburbs to SkyCity & gamble on the pokie machines, the debacle over meth contamination of houses & a whole industry built on unessesarily decontaminating perfectly ok houses with the tragic consequences for many that caused, Christchurch Rebuild mess (Brownlee detested by many in CHC) , humiliating Transmission Gully Project etc etc, I could go on & on.

So it wasn't all perfect under National by any means & while some of those issues were complex & difficult, some were inexcusably simple to fix.
And this isn't intended as a criticism of National but just curious why you express such strong views that National was so great but Labour's been a disaster. (& no need to mention Kiwibuild again, which agreed has been unable to solve the existing housing problem.)

[Balance]

So it wasn't all perfect under National by any means & while some of those issues were complex & difficult, some were inexcusably simple to fix.
And this isn't intended as a criticism of National but just curious why you express such strong views that National was so great but Labour's been a disaster. (& no need to mention Kiwibuild again, which agreed has been unable to solve the existing housing problem.)

Ok, let's take a step back and allow you the benefit of explaining what Labour has actually delivered against the huge promises they made to win 38% of the vote in 2017.

[Panda-NZ-]

Ok, let's take a step back and allow you the benefit of explaining what Labour has actually delivered against the huge promises they made to win 38% of the vote in 2017.

National, Act : 45%
Labour, Green + top/mp= 47%

The elected opposition to the national party in 2017 = 55%

[iceman]

Having in the past voted both National & Labour & as a swinging voter, I'm curious why you think its been disastrous under Labour & wasn't under National.
Knowing a fair cross section of people in all socio eco groups, everyone seems to be doing reasonably well. Those whose jobs are gone, like pilots & airline staff seem to have accepted the reality of the world wide Pandemic & quickly adjusted into finding new careers even if it's a step down. The sharemarket is booming, teachers & nurses are better paid & its looking a more realistic career after years of shortages, the Ski fields are crowded with visitors, the rugby's miles better, the Malls are busy, online retail is surging, etc. Obviously tourism sector badly affected but that's the new reality for many places in the world.

At the end of National's term there were so many problems esp in Health, Education & Housing. It was generally recognised (even by Bill English) that National had underfunded & let too many things deteriorate to the point of broken, & had left their large pre election spending program to fix them too late.

The economy was largely based on massive immigration, the exploitation of cheap foreign workers (esp in tourism & agriculture sector) & the exploitation of International students (worthless courses & an army of people to fill cramped sub standard rental apartments which few NZ'ers would put up with).

Auckland was broken, with rapid massive immigration without the supporting infrastructure (which is why its ironical to hear National now claiming they are the party of infrastructure). Roads & motorways jammed, huge traffic congestion , school rolls bursting at the seams without the classrooms to provide for all the new students, shocking hospital waiting lists for cancer & other serious health problems, estimated Auckland was short of 70,000 homes for the increased population, homeless people sleeping & defecating in the doorways of our main retail stores, chronic teacher & nurses shortages due to low pay & unrealistic work loads, huge & rapidly growing income inequality, outrageous 3rd world diseases like rheumatic fever crippling young children, hospital & school buildings leaking, increasing gambling addiction with rapid proliferation of pokie machines & alcohol outlets in vulnerable communities, the farcically appalling SkyCity deal, the blind eye to the free buses & McDoanld's vouchers SkyCity was using to entice vulnerable people from South Auckland suburbs to SkyCity & gamble on the pokie machines, the debacle over meth contamination of houses & a whole industry built on unessesarily decontaminating perfectly ok houses with the tragic consequences for many that caused, Christchurch Rebuild mess (Brownlee detested by many in CHC) , humiliating Transmission Gully Project etc etc, I could go on & on.

So it wasn't all perfect under National by any means & while some of those issues were complex & difficult, some were inexcusably simple to fix.
And this isn't intended as a criticism of National but just curious why you express such strong views that National was so great but Labour's been a disaster. (& no need to mention Kiwibuild again, which agreed has been unable to solve the existing housing problem.)

You've misread my post. I said the gender quotas for Labour have been disastrous (Claire Curran a good example) and to my knowledge, National has never had them. So that answers the first line in your post and the rest is not relevant to my post that you've quoted.

And for the record, I agree National underfunded some critical infrastructure like hospital and school buildings but I think they were on the right track to sell some of the state housing (and Labour has continued) that largely was in the wrong areas, wrong type of housing and was poorly maintained. A lot of it was sold to organisations that are much better to provide social housing than central Government is.

[Balance]

You've misread my post. I said the gender quotas for Labour have been disastrous (Claire Curran a good example) and to my knowledge, National has never had them. So that answers the first line in your post and the rest is not relevant to my post that you've quoted.

And for the record, I agree National underfunded some critical infrastructure like hospital and school buildings but I think they were on the right track to sell some of the state housing (and Labour has continued) that largely was in the wrong areas, wrong type of housing and was poorly maintained. A lot of it was sold to organisations that are much better to provide social housing than central Government is.

Talk to any developer and builder involved in building and supplying state homes to Kainga Ora (new name for Housing NZ to cover up Kiwibuild disaster) and they will tell you that it is a bottomless pit which they are extremely happy whenever Labour comes into power - BONANZA time.

They are building houses for third generation state tenants as well as for extended families in the dozens.

Breeding beneficiaries - Labour’s way of building up its voters’ base using taxpayers’ funds under the pretence of ‘be kind’.

Labour has never understood why it is better to teach a man to fish vs giving a man a fish - party of mostly state beneficiaries themselves who have never created jobs in their lives.