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  1. #1
    Membaa
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    Default MMP time is up, what a farce!

    When a minor party that 92.5% of the voting population did NOT vote for, still gets to choose who the major party is that will form government, you know that MMP is a farce.

    Time for a referendum, get rid of MMP, it's a broken system!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    When a minor party that 92.5% of the voting population did NOT vote for, still gets to choose who the major party is that will form government, you know that MMP is a farce.

    Time for a referendum, get rid of MMP, it's a broken system!
    It was always a broken system and I for one never voted for it, fringe elements having the ability to hold the country to ransom is a crime.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by couta1 View Post
    It was always a broken system and I for one never voted for it, fringe elements having the ability to hold the country to ransom is a crime.
    SMP is the answer.

  4. #4
    Membaa
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    "It's a very strange situation. That's because MMP is a very strange system."

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11929786

    Get rid of MMP, it's broken and must be replaced.
    Last edited by Baa_Baa; 08-10-2017 at 11:47 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    "It's a very strange situation. That's because MMP is a very strange system."

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11929786

    Get rid of MMP, it's broken and must be replaced.
    Sad to see the end note, that it's Rodney's last column. Pity because he makes a lot of sense.

  6. #6
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    "It's a very strange situation. That's because MMP is a very strange system."

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11929786
    "It's a fatal flaw of MMP that two weeks on we still don't have a result"

    Yes, this is ridiculous, but how is this the fault of MMP? It it is the fault of a brain dead New Zealand made system of special treatment for "special votes" which need to be apparently hand carried after the election day to the respective electorate to be counted. Other countries with MMP have postal voting instead and it is the responsibility of the voter to make sure that their letter arrives prior to election day at the counting place. Easy. In Germany they know the election results on election night, despite using MMP as well.

    "With MMP the politicians decide the Government, not us.
    More particularly, it's up to Winston Peters. He gets to decide whether Bill English or Jacinda Ardern will be prime minister. He gets to decide whether National or Labour will be in Government."

    Well, not quite so. It is only the dumbness, inflexibility and immaturity of other NZ Parties which gives Winnie First this power. It's not MMP's fault. If we look back at the German example and apply the NZ results, than possible governments could look like: National/Labour (a grand coalition), National / Green, Labour / NZF / Green, National / NZF; All possible under MMP and all representing a majority of the voters. Great system - requiring though some maturity, negotiation skills and readiness to compromise.

    The good thing about MMP is that majority and minority interests are considered. Under FPP it was one party representing less than 50% of the votes taking it all with the licence to behave like a dictatorship for the next 3 years.

    I prefer MMP.

    Do your homework Rodney ... or just go home. Not writing this column would have added to your reputation, but it is too late now.
    Last edited by BlackPeter; 08-10-2017 at 02:02 PM.
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=BlackPeter;687611

    Do your homework Rodney ... or just go home. Not writing this column would have added to your reputation, but it is too late now.[/QUOTE]

    Uncalled for snide remarks like this do nothing for your reputation either IMPO...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    When a minor party that 92.5% of the voting population did NOT vote for, still gets to choose who the major party is that will form government, you know that MMP is a farce.

    Time for a referendum, get rid of MMP, it's a broken system!
    Yes the system is broken, all the MPs from both Greens and NZ First are all list MPs not one was elected on the night outright, and it appears they now will have a big say in how country will be run for the next three years. Is that fair,,,,,,,,,

  9. #9
    Membaa
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    Quote Originally Posted by waikare View Post
    Yes the system is broken, all the MPs from both Greens and NZ First are all list MPs not one was elected on the night outright, and it appears they now will have a big say in how country will be run for the next three years. Is that fair,,,,,,,,,
    That is just SO WRONG! Unelected party members from a minor party with only 7.5% of the nationwide party votes gets to choose the major party that forms a government.

    MMP is seriously flawed, it's a farce, get rid of it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    That is just SO WRONG! Unelected party members from a minor party with only 7.5% of the nationwide party votes gets to choose the major party that forms a government.

    MMP is seriously flawed, it's a farce, get rid of it.
    Even though unlikely, I sincerely hope that National gain 1 seat from the special votes. That would remove Winston's choice to the Left and force him to support National or another election called, where NZF would be wiped out.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    That is just SO WRONG! Unelected party members from a minor party with only 7.5% of the nationwide party votes gets to choose the major party that forms a government.

    MMP is seriously flawed, it's a farce, get rid of it.
    Not really..get an actual majority and you have no issue.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    Not really..get an actual majority and you have no issue.
    That would just be FPP in disguise, so no need for MMP aye.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Time for a referendum, get rid of MMP, it's a broken system!
    There was a referendum and stupid won...

  14. #14
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    I'll take my contrarian view. This is what MMP is all about. It is about ensuring those that can secure 5% or more of the vote (or a seat) get a voice in parliament. We have to get over this "but you didn't win a seat so have no mandate" rubbish - that is not what MMP is about.

    And that is a good thing - even if we dont like the views being expressed. Negotiations after an election are always on the cards - have we not learnt anything in 21 years. That people like Maori are stupid enough not to see this (loosing Te ururoa a prime example) and the totally stupid Greens who seem hell bent on staying in opposition with their stupid rules is a function of the failure of their constituencies to see how MMP work.

    We always knew one party is likely to influence the final formation of government. If that party got over 5% that does not make them a fringe party - it makes them a significant influencer. But not the leader of the government.

    NZ First isnt holding the country to ransom - they (and the Greens) are just going through processes that will see the formation of our next government. That's what MMP is all about. We aren't in a First Past the Post enviroment so really after 21 years time to move on from that mentality.

  15. #15
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    It is interesting to see the different and more mature approach in Germany where they've just voted overnight in a MMP election. Merkel and her sister party with approximately 33% combined are hailed as winners and she has undisputed authority to try to put together a Government.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    It is interesting to see the different and more mature approach in Germany where they've just voted overnight in a MMP election. Merkel and her sister party with approximately 33% combined are hailed as winners and she has undisputed authority to try to put together a Government.
    Perhaps because the alternative is next top ranked 4 parties (CPD 20.6, AFD12.8, FDP10.6 and Die Linke on 9.1%) trying to stitch together a coalition would be a nonsense.

    Imagine National and Labour (as the top two polling parties) forming a coalition - that ain't going to happen for as long as we have this Left vs Right mentality

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    It is interesting to see the different and more mature approach in Germany where they've just voted overnight in a MMP election. Merkel and her sister party with approximately 33% combined are hailed as winners and she has undisputed authority to try to put together a Government.
    Hmmmm not sure about mature... noting that the third ranked party, Alternative for Germany (AfD) secured 13% of the vote and sees the return of the far-right to the Bundestag for the first time in 50 years.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rep View Post
    Hmmmm not sure about mature... noting that the third ranked party, Alternative for Germany (AfD) secured 13% of the vote and sees the return of the far-right to the Bundestag for the first time in 50 years.
    This is happening all over Europe, including Scandinavia, as a result of failed immigration policies over many years.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    This is happening all over Europe, including Scandinavia, as a result of failed immigration policies over many years.
    I would say the same thing here on a smaller scale...Peters is the only anti-immigration party
    Last edited by Raz; 25-09-2017 at 12:37 PM.

  20. #20
    Possum in the headlights Beagle's Avatar
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    Can I throw in a curved ball here for debate. Would a N.Z. Frist / Labour / Greens coalition have the moral authority to govern ? Nearly 50% of the population didn't vote for any of those parties. I think if we end up getting this sort of coalition then MMP is a farce. Surely the party with the biggest share of the vote should have the preemptive right to form a government ?
    Last edited by Beagle; 25-09-2017 at 09:50 AM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

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