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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    But over 50% did. Under FPP, a party could have had well under 50% support yet have a very comfortable majority of seats. Was that fair for the majority of voters who did not vote for that party?
    Another alternative is a minority government and Peters sit on the cross benches...if you have the endurance... may well gain more by skinning the Government cat each and every time they need support:-)

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    Another alternative is a minority government and Peters sit on the cross benches...if you have the endurance... may well gain more by skinning the Government cat each and every time they need support:-)
    Labour or National would have to agree, presumably with some accommodations locked in. If there is no agreement from either party a new election would be likely, and voters would punish NZF.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    But over 50% did. Under FPP, a party could have had well under 50% support yet have a very comfortable majority of seats. Was that fair for the majority of voters who did not vote for that party?
    Definitely not. Wherre I live there was little point in voting at all unless yuou voted Labour. . In FPP days the Labour party won all seats every time, in spite of the fact they put up completely useless candidates. e.g. Brian MacDonnel who held his seat for over 20 years, and I doubt if anyone remembers him. It's still the same with Curran, who took over from the equally useless Benson-Pope; totally useless but guaranteed to win every time. At least MMP for all its faults gives me a say.

  4. #34
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    I find it odd how some people think Winston has a moral obligation to side with National. Surely his moral obligation is to form a government that best represents the interests of the people who voted for him? His main policies are reducing immigration and looking after people on super. National likes lots of immigration and wants to raise the eligible age for super, so National and NZF certainly arn't made for each other.

    I voted for Green but i am not really hoping for a Labour-NZF-Green government, as it would probably not work that well, and would almost certainly get voted out after a term of doing not much of anything. However, if National don't stroke Winstons ego enough if could happen!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    Sort of agree, but half the NZ First voters would be National if NZ first did not exist. THe Left block or change in govt block was/is Labour and Green. And they do not have the majority by a long way. IN fact they together even lack National.
    I think you Sir have made an excellent point. A left coalition fails on moral grounds right there in this hounds opinion.
    If a left leaning coalition do clobber together some sort of deal and start making early tax changes, (despite Ms Ardern promising to hold off until after the next election nd the results of a so called tax working group's tax review, taxpayers reactions could be very "interesting". New Taxes revolt anyone ?
    http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/nation...cid=spartandhp
    Last edited by Beagle; 25-09-2017 at 01:23 PM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  6. #36
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    I'd prefer a National/NZF coalition govt. Financial crisis just around the corner. Govt. of the day will get the blame and also there is no point bringing in a capital gains tax when everything is highly priced. You will only create tax deductible losses.

  7. #37
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    Watching the major party's prostitute themselves to NZF makes me sick to my stomach. Both party's forfeiting the deputy leader position today, before the real negotiations even begin. Negotiation via the media putting NZF in the kingmaker position is sickening, MMP must go, it's a farce. This election and the formation of the next government will prove it, either way.

  8. #38
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    Finally, someone in the media is talking straight, obviously picked up on sentiment

    "Has MMP had its run".

    I say YES to that!

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...mp-had-its-run

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Watching the major party's prostitute themselves to NZF makes me sick to my stomach. Both party's forfeiting the deputy leader position today, before the real negotiations even begin. Negotiation via the media putting NZF in the kingmaker position is sickening, MMP must go, it's a farce. This election and the formation of the next government will prove it, either way.
    Unfortunately 51% of voters gave MMP the tick over FPP if I remember right, perhaps another vote would see it chucked out after the latest fiasco has run it's course. Shame the Greens are too pigheaded to do a deal with National and shut Winston out completely, looks a far better coalition than one that includes the kingmaker calling the shots way out of proportion with his vote tally.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by couta1 View Post
    Shame the Greens are too pigheaded to do a deal with National and shut Winston out completely, looks a far better coalition than one that includes the kingmaker calling the shots way out of proportion with his vote tally.
    Absolutely agree, and all it will take is a slight move by National (or Labour) into the green space to make the Greens go the same way as the Maori party. I think there are signs Jacinda is making that move already.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by couta1 View Post
    Unfortunately 51% of voters gave MMP the tick over FPP if I remember right, perhaps another vote would see it chucked out after the latest fiasco has run it's course. Shame the Greens are too pigheaded to do a deal with National and shut Winston out completely, looks a far better coalition than one that includes the kingmaker calling the shots way out of proportion with his vote tally.
    Greens are riddled with socialist cancer like Jacinda. Laughable to think they could side with National. SM is the way to go tto avoid current situation where the decision who will govern will ignore the highest vote and leave the choice in one man's hands.
    Remember Peter Shirtcliffe and his campaign?

  12. #42
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    "It's a very strange situation. That's because MMP is a very strange system."

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11929786

    Get rid of MMP, it's broken and must be replaced.
    Last edited by Baa_Baa; 08-10-2017 at 10:47 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    "It's a very strange situation. That's because MMP is a very strange system."

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11929786

    Get rid of MMP, it's broken and must be replaced.
    Sad to see the end note, that it's Rodney's last column. Pity because he makes a lot of sense.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    "It's a very strange situation. That's because MMP is a very strange system."

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11929786
    "It's a fatal flaw of MMP that two weeks on we still don't have a result"

    Yes, this is ridiculous, but how is this the fault of MMP? It it is the fault of a brain dead New Zealand made system of special treatment for "special votes" which need to be apparently hand carried after the election day to the respective electorate to be counted. Other countries with MMP have postal voting instead and it is the responsibility of the voter to make sure that their letter arrives prior to election day at the counting place. Easy. In Germany they know the election results on election night, despite using MMP as well.

    "With MMP the politicians decide the Government, not us.
    More particularly, it's up to Winston Peters. He gets to decide whether Bill English or Jacinda Ardern will be prime minister. He gets to decide whether National or Labour will be in Government."

    Well, not quite so. It is only the dumbness, inflexibility and immaturity of other NZ Parties which gives Winnie First this power. It's not MMP's fault. If we look back at the German example and apply the NZ results, than possible governments could look like: National/Labour (a grand coalition), National / Green, Labour / NZF / Green, National / NZF; All possible under MMP and all representing a majority of the voters. Great system - requiring though some maturity, negotiation skills and readiness to compromise.

    The good thing about MMP is that majority and minority interests are considered. Under FPP it was one party representing less than 50% of the votes taking it all with the licence to behave like a dictatorship for the next 3 years.

    I prefer MMP.

    Do your homework Rodney ... or just go home. Not writing this column would have added to your reputation, but it is too late now.
    Last edited by BlackPeter; 08-10-2017 at 01:02 PM.
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  15. #45
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    [QUOTE=BlackPeter;687611

    Do your homework Rodney ... or just go home. Not writing this column would have added to your reputation, but it is too late now.[/QUOTE]

    Uncalled for snide remarks like this do nothing for your reputation either IMPO...

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