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  1. #41
    Senior Member Marilyn Munroe's Avatar
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    As globalization continues and the unit cost of freight goes down there will be more and more stuff crossing New Zealand's wharves.

    Think of the development of North Port as a relief valve for the crowded Auckland Isthmus.

    Back when I was a pimply faced youth I can remember another rail line that was teetering on the brink of usefulness, the Main North Line which ran from Christchurch to Picton. It had one train a day each way mockingly called the Cabbage Train by the locals.

    Then the roll on roll off Cook Straight rail ferries were introduced and trains and tonnage on this line increased substantially.

    I reckon the building of a spur line from the North Auckland Line to Marsden Point will have a similar positive effect as the rail ferries.

    Even if their effect is confined to reducing transport bottle necks on the Isthmus the small cost of doing this compared with Nationals roads of significance make it a risk worth taking.

    There will be enough business to go around. I am sure the ratepayers of Auckland would welcome operating surpluses from their Port being paid to the Council rather than being retained for developments to accommodate continual increases in business

    Boop boop de do
    Marilyn
    Diamonds are a girls best friend.

  2. #42
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    I wonder what happens to this stock now ? Has steadily increased over the time I've held it (July 15).
    Hope its not a three year study to see if its viable...although that was something I would have picked for a NZ First / Nats coalition.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    I wonder what happens to this stock now ? Has steadily increased over the time I've held it (July 15).
    Hope its not a three year study to see if its viable...although that was something I would have picked for a NZ First / Nats coalition.
    They'll want to get some movement before the next local body elections in 2019 just on the off chance that Goff isn't there afterwards. They need him to make this happen.

  4. #44
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    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11921479
    The cost to implement a rail network to move freight from Northport through to the south of Auckland has been estimated at more than $2.5 billion.
    A representative from the state-owned enterprise KiwiRail outlined the costs at the political rail forum in Whangarei on Monday night. (11/09/17). The forum was organised by Grow Northland Rail and attended by about 150 people.
    KiwiRail's Dave Gordon took an apolitical stance as he broke the cost down into three sections.
    He said to get the North Auckland line up to scratch, tunnels, bridges, passing loops, a stretch of rail and the radio systems would need to be upgraded or replaced.
    He said that would cost about $100 million. He said legacy works would cost another $200m over 15 years.

    Mr Gordon said the link to Northport would be about $200m.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2...ectid=11920629

  5. #45
    Senior Member Marilyn Munroe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moka View Post
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11921479
    The cost to implement a rail network to move freight from Northport through to the south of Auckland has been estimated at more than 2.5 billion.
    A representative from the state-owned enterprise KiwiRail outlined the costs at the political rail forum in Whangarei on Monday night. (11/09/). The forum was by Grow Northland Rail and attended by about 150 people.
    KiwiRail's Dave Gordon took an apolitical stance as he broke the cost down into three sections.
    He said to get the North Auckland line up to scratch, tunnels, bridges, passing loops, a stretch of rail and the radio systems would need to be upgraded or replaced.
    He said that would cost about $100 million. He said legacy works would cost another $200m over 15 years.

    Mr Gordon said the link to Northport would be about $200m.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2...ectid=11920629
    Crikey $200mi lfor a branch line. Are they using crushed diamonds for ballast and gold bars for rails?

    Bop boop de do
    Marilyn

    My guess $1mill $2mil tops a klm
    Diamonds are a girls best friend.

  6. #46
    Legend Balance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Munroe View Post
    Crikey $200mi lfor a branch line. Are they using crushed diamonds for ballast and gold bars for rails?

    Bop boop de do
    Marilyn

    My guess $1mill $2mil tops a klm
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...ts-of-auckland

    Well, looks like the deal is going ahead.

    $500m rail upgrade to start the process so that those wretched cars & the most expensive carpark in the OECD can be shifted north first and then, the container operations from Auckland to be moved.

    Going to be boom time for Northland ahead.

    You know it is going to happen when the road freight operators panic and start talking nonsense like this :

    "David Aitken, Chief Executive of National Road Carriers, says at least eight years of consultation and planning would be needed before construction work required for such a project could even begin".
    Last edited by Balance; 24-10-2017 at 09:19 AM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    "David Aitken, Chief Executive of National Road Carriers, says at least eight years of consultation and planning would be needed before construction work required for such a project could even begin".
    Translation: We think if we delay this long enough a National govt will come in and scupper the whole plan, or at least the rail link part of it, and build a big new highway for us to drive on.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...ts-of-auckland

    Well, looks like the deal is going ahead.

    $500m rail upgrade to start the process so that those wretched cars & the most expensive carpark in the OECD can be shifted north first and then, the container operations from Auckland to be moved.

    Going to be boom time for Northland ahead.

    You know it is going to happen when the road freight operators panic and start talking nonsense like this :

    "David Aitken, Chief Executive of National Road Carriers, says at least eight years of consultation and planning would be needed before construction work required for such a project could even begin".
    While the money seems huge...when I compare it with the EW Road Link, close to 2Billion. well, that seems to put it into a better perspective. And the benefits for Northland, Auckland and therefore NZ, seem huge. Would be great to see us building this kind of infrastructure to take the country forward.

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/auckland/08...st-connection/

  9. #49
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    Be interesting to see what happens today as the market digests that nz first now had pretty much all the key portfolios to improve the infrastructure link from Northport to Auckland if this is what Winston decides is a priority. I presume some of the $1b/yr regional development fund could also be used. Disc new holder

  10. #50
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    Q as the POA is owned by the Auck Council ( and the Auck rate payers ) who will pay them for the company and how much what will it cost to shift the POA to Ntlkand Port and if they wont be paid then this will finish up in court for years.
    So say 2.5 Billion to buy POA out and another 1 billion to set up the new port , carbon cost of moving that freight back to Auckland, upgrades of rail-- tunnels bridges widening rail corridor, then there is the freight costs of car moveal and not forgetting the capital costs of bigger and more powerful trains rolling stock , spares and train repair facilities.
    NO BRAINER , it will not stand up as a business study, nice try ****er Winston!

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatsup View Post
    it will not stand up as a business study, nice try ****er Winston!
    But that's the point Labour & NZ First are making - we've spent far too much time focusing on the narrow business case, when we need to focus on the fluffy intangible social benefits. QED, the POA should move to Northland. Simple, isn't it!

  12. #52
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    MMH is 19.9% owned by POAL, and with POT owning 50% of Northport I'm not sure that the govt will want POT to have that much control over shipping in the North Island. So I can see them forcing POT to give up a chunk of its shareholding to POAL so they have a majority with the money coming from the sale and development of the existing POAL site.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mondograss View Post
    MMH is 19.9% owned by POAL, and with POT owning 50% of Northport I'm not sure that the govt will want POT to have that much control over shipping in the North Island. So I can see them forcing POT to give up a chunk of its shareholding to POAL so they have a majority with the money coming from the sale and development of the existing POAL site.
    So this gives POAL indirect "control" over 10 % of North Port. Thanks Mondograss, had thought it was 20 %, I had missed the 50% held by Tauranga.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    But that's the point Labour & NZ First are making - we've spent far too much time focusing on the narrow business case, when we need to focus on the fluffy intangible social benefits. QED, the POA should move to Northland. Simple, isn't it!
    Properly costed, a study will show that NZ taxpayers and road users are subsidizing container and other bulk carriers (including auto vehicles) billions of dollars as these uneconomic forms of transport (vs rail) cause maximum damage to the roading infrastructure, and require more and more roads to ease traffic congestion.

    Ever see how many tires there are on a container carrier - 18 for a small container and 24 for a large container carrier! Just imagine the wear and tear on them, and in turn on the roads.

    Then, there's the cost of traffic congestion - another billion dollar savings.

    Thing is, the trucking association know that they have been having it really good and that's why the industry has grown and grown.

    Cut off one of the main suppliers (POA) and watch Auckland and surrounding area traffic ease up.

    That alone is good enough reason to shift POA to Northland.

    Think long term.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...ts-of-auckland

    Well, looks like the deal is going ahead.

    You know it is going to happen when the road freight operators panic and start talking nonsense like this :

    "David Aitken, Chief Executive of National Road Carriers, says at least eight years of consultation and planning would be needed before construction work required for such a project could even begin".
    There has already been at least eight years of consultation and planning and the rail corridor was designated in 2009.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsden_Point_Branch
    By August 2006 both the Northland Regional Council and ONTRACK had entered into talks with interested parties.[5] The result of these talks was positive and in August 2007 the Council began work to purchase land for the proposed route.[6] ONTRACK subsequently confirmed that once the land is acquired it will designate the route as a rail corridor.[7] On 27 November 2007 ONTRACK and the Council confirmed that they were entering into a joint venture arrangement to progress the land designation process and share the costs of land acquisition.[8] A commitment to build the line will be made once the corridor is designated.[3]
    In late 2008, ONTRACK served a notice of requirement to Whangarei District Council for the route's rail designation, seen as an important legal step towards the eventual line.[12] This process began in January 2009[13] and was completed later that year.[14]

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwAddS9snas Grow Northland Rail meeting 11/09/17

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Properly costed, a study will show that NZ taxpayers and road users are subsidizing container and other bulk carriers (including auto vehicles) billions of dollars as these uneconomic forms of transport (vs rail) cause maximum damage to the roading infrastructure, and require more and more roads to ease traffic congestion.
    Where are the results of the study into the economic benefits? We can't make decisions based on what we think or feel, we need objective facts for which there are very few at present.

    If a cost-benefit analysis proves Northport to provide economically more beneficial than the other options then it should proceed, but before pouring billions of dollars in infrastructure development and compensation payments to the Auckland Council, we need proof that this is the right decision. That is the most concerning part of all of this.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    Where are the results of the study into the economic benefits? We can't make decisions based on what we think or feel, we need objective facts for which there are very few at present.

    If a cost-benefit analysis proves Northport to provide economically more beneficial than the other options then it should proceed, but before pouring billions of dollars in infrastructure development and compensation payments to the Auckland Council, we need proof that this is the right decision. That is the most concerning part of all of this.
    Eh - hence the reason for the feasibility study.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Eh - hence the reason for the feasibility study.
    But you've already stated the outcome in your previous post, without any completed study.

    Winston also declared his "cast iron commitment" to move POA operations to Northport without any data to back up such a stance.
    Last edited by Zaphod; 25-10-2017 at 08:22 PM.

  19. #59
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    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11934908 21 Oct, 2017

    The Marsden City development has been sold to a New Zealand buyer.
    And with Winston Peters in the thick of government after promising to bring new port work to Whangarei, the acquisition could be perfect timing for the new owner.
    The 83ha Marsden City development, just off State Highway 1 was put up for sale in 2015 after companies behind the scheme - North Holdings Development, NH Infrastructure and North Holdings Investment - were put into receivership.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/n...ectid=11481962

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    But you've already stated the outcome in your previous post, without any completed study.

    Winston also declared his "cast iron commitment" to move POA operations to Northport without any data to back up such a stance.
    I state my opinion ("a study will show") which will be confirmed by the feasibility study.

    Better than all the misinformation being fed to the media and public by the trucking industry and POA to try and stave off the inevitable.

    Note how quickly POA came out to say it will not reclaim any more land into the Auckland harbour though after Winston made his view clear?
    Last edited by Balance; 25-10-2017 at 09:43 PM.

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