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  1. #6721
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    That's actually a reasonable good and sensible list, but what would you do if you were the PM/government to achieve them? How would you provide/ensure the quality education, affordable housing and jobs? You can't just magic them up from nowhere.

    The parental responsibility thing however is something you are making a judgement about. People in poverty are not all irresponsible parents. As I said in my previous post, some of those parents are working multiple jobs trying to support their families. Not all of them have large numbers of children. Are you proposing that we restrict the number of children we can have? China tried that. Do you really want us to go down that track?

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    4 things which will decisively change the ‘poverty’ trap in NZ - true & tried methods :

    1. Free Quality Education

    2. Affordable housing

    3. Jobs

    4. Personal & parental responsibilities

    1, 2 & 3 are already readily available if spending is prioritised but there is no will or desire to impose personal & parental responsibilities on all parents in NZ.

    Parents having more children than they can afford for eg but they expect the state to provide! As long as that is the case, child poverty will never be eradicated.

    Why even bother?

    Teach a person to fish etc etc

  2. #6722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    4 things which will decisively change the ‘poverty’ trap in NZ - true & tried methods :

    1. Free Quality Education

    2. Affordable housing

    3. Jobs

    4. Personal & parental responsibilities

    1, 2 & 3 are already readily available if spending is prioritised but there is no will or desire to impose personal & parental responsibilities on all parents in NZ.

    Parents having more children than they can afford for eg but they expect the state to provide! As long as that is the case, child poverty will never be eradicated.

    Why even bother?

    Teach a person to fish etc etc

    1. I suppose incentivising uni graduate students to pay off their loans interest free while resident in New Zealand is at least better than burdening them with interest. At the earlier primary through to high school levels of education there's plenty of quality education around at say the lower decile schools - But the stigma associated with lower decile schools is that being lumped in with all the poor people is bad.
    The teachers and resources are just as good as med-higher deciles, just the parents need to get over themselves IMO.

    2. RMA? 3D printed housing - An entire house frame built from within a few hours to a few days? In September, Auckland Council removed the need of building consents for sleepouts, carports, sheds etc so that may incentivise the tiny house movement further?

    3. The ongoing fruit pickers saga - Robotics will put that to rest in the near-med term as the costs go down and the uptake steadily increases. Perhaps incentivise apprenticeships for the mechanical/electrical engineering side of the robotics at high school level?

    4. Man - That's an entirely new thread on it's own on!

  3. #6723
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    Quote Originally Posted by RupertBear View Post
    Hard to know how many National people voted for Labour to keep the Greens out, I am sure quite a few did but it doesnt explain the massive shift in favour of Labour IMO. I think Jacindas popularity had something to do with it plus in these uncertain times I think people tend to want some consistency in their lives and voting Labour back in may have given them a sense of security. But who would know, we will just have to see how things pan out.
    How Vaughan Gunson sees the reasons why people voted Labour.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/vaughan-gunson-assessing-the-2020-election-through-risks-rewards-lens/G7QOYRQH75CFTLJUWBAKZ4YEBM/

    The Government's handling of the Covid-19 crisis and the personal charisma and intelligence of Jacinda Ardern was a huge factor, undoubtedly.

    Labour at least acknowledges the concerns of younger voters. That's in contrast to National in 2017 and again this time. Labour received many votes from under-30s on Saturday. The way the party presents itself, the way the Prime Minister behaves and articulates herself, appeals to younger voters, particularly women.A strategy of appealing to the concerns of our young people (and the "youth adjacent") is core to Labour's identity.

    Stressing their handling of Covid-19 brought many older voters to the party, perhaps for the first time.

    I don't think it's true that hordes of National supporters switched to Labour purely to keep the Greens out. A small number, maybe. The more likely scenario is that many switched to Labour as a genuine endorsement of the Prime Minister's leadership through a global pandemic.

    Taking a very centrist manifesto into the election, particularly on tax, also reaped rewards.

    The Prime Minister's message of compassion and cultural inclusion has been powerfully transformative, even though tax policy, housing policy and economic policy hasn't been.

  4. #6724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    ...
    Parents having more children than they can afford for eg but they expect the state to provide! As long as that is the case, child poverty will never be eradicated.
    ...
    Is immigration preferable to natural NZ population increase? Who will look after the grey tsunami?
    More parents could perhaps look after their children without state aid if accommodation were cheaper. Often it is the grandparents who have the big house whilst young families are struggling to get a foothold. However there have always been Big expenses for young families yet those with higher incomes and greater wealth are older. So yep young families will need more help as not everyone has wealthy grandparents to help out financially.

  5. #6725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Writes the loser tim23 & snivelling coward who does not have any balls or real $$$ to back up his assertions.

    I ❤️ It! 🤣
    Another embarrassing post maybe you didn't receive the WEP after all, as its hard to imagine a pensioner carrying on like you do.

  6. #6726
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    Sometimes I really wonder whether you actually understand the meaning of some of the words you use. The absolute LAST thing Jacinda is, is cynical. Not in any shape or form. If anyone is cynical its you.

    Why do you get so worked up all the time? Politicians come and go. As individuals we will like some politicians and dislike others. None of them are perfect and we shouldn't expect them to be. But seriously, your aggressive attitude towards Jacinda is off the scale crazy. Just suck it up and let her get on with it. It's 3 years, not forever. Either she will prove herself worthy of the role or she won't. Which is no different from any other politician we have had in the past. Geez, I had to tolerate Muldoon, John Key and Simon Bridges. Yes I moaned from time to time but I didn't let it consume me or my life. If you hang on to your anger and continue like this for the next three years you will send yourself to an early grave. Seriously.
    Quite right, I'm guessing Balance is a rampant Tory and he probably enjoyed the Muldoon years and Muldoon was a dictator, our PM is not in that league.

  7. #6727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Assisted dying = ACT

    Cannabis = Greens

    Abortion reform = formalisation of practices already in place

    Try harder, Moka - name one transformative initiative by Cindy. She can’t even Deliver on Reducing child poverty!
    People are concerned about child poverty but if addressing it affects them personally by paying more taxes or house prices falling their support wanes, because of nimbyism.

    Transforming social issues can come first e.g. changes to abortion, cannabis and assisted dying.

    Vaughan Gunson talks about transformation of attitudes too – “The Prime Minister's message of compassion and cultural inclusion has been powerfully transformative, even though tax policy, housing policy and economic policy hasn't been.”

    There has to be general public acceptance of policies. If Jacinda had pushed ahead and passed a capital gains tax National said they would have rescinded it if elected. There was not as much support for capital gains tax compared to cannabis reform, and a lot of neutrals and did not knows (22%) so a lot of people didn’t know much about it.

    The nationwide Horizon Research Poll - taken between February 28 and March 15 2019 - found 44 per cent of New Zealand adults supported introducing a capital gains tax and 35 per cent opposed it.
    A further 16 per cent are neutral on the new tax, while 6 per cent did not know.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/more-kiwis-support-capital-gains-tax-than-oppose-in-new-poll/7WGICVGTR6DISJXD5ZTCDG2G5U/

    The UMR research – an online survey of 1,129 people aged 18 years and over – shows 49% support for the Cannabis bill, with 45% against. Of the undecideds, a further 2% leaned towards voting in favour of the bill when pushed, while another 2% go the other way.
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/06-...lisation-vote/

  8. #6728
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    Sometimes I really wonder whether you actually understand the meaning of some of the words you use. The absolute LAST thing Jacinda is, is cynical. Not in any shape or form. If anyone is cynical its you.

    Why do you get so worked up all the time? Politicians come and go. As individuals we will like some politicians and dislike others. None of them are perfect and we shouldn't expect them to be. But seriously, your aggressive attitude towards Jacinda is off the scale crazy. Just suck it up and let her get on with it. It's 3 years, not forever. Either she will prove herself worthy of the role or she won't. Which is no different from any other politician we have had in the past. Geez, I had to tolerate Muldoon, John Key and Simon Bridges. Yes I moaned from time to time but I didn't let it consume me or my life. If you hang on to your anger and continue like this for the next three years you will send yourself to an early grave. Seriously.
    Sorry to burst your bubble justakiwi, but Ardern is as cynical as they come....just a little better at masking it. Pragmatic as well perhaps.

    Examples?.....early days of lockdown when she threw clinicians under the bus over lack of testing, when the issue was her governments mixed messaging and lack of kits at that time.

    The immediate "social distancing" she undertook from Bloomfield when she sensed he was on the outer.

    The stated claim that she would ease off on the daily propaganda....only to be back within a week. I wonder how often she will appear now that the election is out of the way?

    Her refusal to say where she stands on the cannabis bill because she knows it is on a knife edge.

    The constant framing of the narrative whenever she makes a major announcement in the daily propaganda briefings.

    The cynical manipulation of the virus situation, ramping up the fear etc

    The "reset" of Kiwibuild.

    The "Year of Delivery" that never eventuated.

    I could go on....but you get the picture

  9. #6729
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    Quote Originally Posted by moka View Post
    People are concerned about child poverty but if addressing it affects them personally by paying more taxes or house prices falling their support wanes, because of nimbyism.
    The mind boggles at the staggering amount of research and the massive number of surveys you have obviously undertaken to provide such information. Some sceptical readers will no doubt think you are just making a wild claim. Shame on them.

  10. #6730
    Guru justakiwi's Avatar
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    None of that meets the definition of cynicism in my book.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    Sorry to burst your bubble justakiwi, but Ardern is as cynical as they come....just a little better at masking it. Pragmatic as well perhaps.

    Examples?.....early days of lockdown when she threw clinicians under the bus over lack of testing, when the issue was her governments mixed messaging and lack of kits at that time.

    The immediate "social distancing" she undertook from Bloomfield when she sensed he was on the outer.

    The stated claim that she would ease off on the daily propaganda....only to be back within a week. I wonder how often she will appear now that the election is out of the way?

    Her refusal to say where she stands on the cannabis bill because she knows it is on a knife edge.

    The constant framing of the narrative whenever she makes a major announcement in the daily propaganda briefings.

    The cynical manipulation of the virus situation, ramping up the fear etc

    The "reset" of Kiwibuild.

    The "Year of Delivery" that never eventuated.

    I could go on....but you get the picture
    Last edited by justakiwi; 24-10-2020 at 07:34 AM.

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