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  1. #3001
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    Quote Originally Posted by macduffy View Post
    Am I the only one getting tired of this "exchange of views"? It seems to have strayed a long way from the title of the thread.

    I thought it relevant given the Greens are part of this government. Maybe Citizens Assemblies will be on their wish list when they next have Cindy over a barrel?

  2. #3002
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    Really now BP.

    An unelected bunch of people developing policy for the rest of us. Doesn't sound Marxist to you? What need would we have for an elected parliament? You know that thing where we get to scutinise their policies and experience before we vote for them.

    A Marxist government runs absolutely on this system. They just go under a different name. As said earlier...The People's Party of ....(insert state).

    <snip>
    "An unelected bunch of people developing policy for the rest of us"?

    That sounds uncannily like

    * any number of special-interest lobbying organisations,

    * the focus groups which political parties pay for to determine the electability or otherwise of their policies,

    * the standard local and central government consultation process, like any number of government departments providing advice to ministers,

    * all the other, less formal, methods of providing feedback on government policies - petitions, demonstrations, and the like


    You might also like to consider the Ostbelgien model.
    Last edited by GTM 3442; 04-12-2019 at 09:39 PM.

  3. #3003
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTM 3442 View Post
    "An unelected bunch of people developing policy for the rest of us"?

    That sounds uncannily like

    * any number of special-interest lobbying organisations,

    * the focus groups which political parties pay for to determine the electability or otherwise of their policies,

    * the standard local and central government consultation process, like any number of government departments providing advice to ministers,

    * all the other, less formal, methods of providing feedback on government policies - petitions, demonstrations, and the like


    You might also like to consider the Ostbelgien model.
    IMHO the only thing in your list it slightly resembles is the "Special Interest Lobby Groups". I would certainly like greater transparency on what they get up to, along with the exMPs and Ministers acting as consultants that still have access to the corridors at the Beehive.

    As for the Ostbelgien model, without knowing too much about it, it would appear they are dealing with an incredibly complex history and mix of cultures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post

    <snip>

    As for the Ostbelgien model, without knowing too much about it, it would appear they are dealing with an incredibly complex history and mix of cultures.
    And, with that "incredibly complex history and mix of cultures", they're being very pragmatic in searching for stuff that works for them.

    Those governments which display unwillingness or inability to change eventually reap the whirlwind - as history so amply demonstrates.

  5. #3005
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    Labour today denied a request of the former President of NZFirst Lester Gray and Treasurer Colin Forster to be heard at Justice Select Committee. Mr Gray resigned in October saying “This type of operation does not align with my moral and business values”.

    NZ First was the only party to not declare any donations at Election 2017. Its anonymous donations were $342,000 more than ten times any other party. On top of this is $500,000 of secret donations to its foundation. NZ has a right to know who were major funders of the party that determined outcome of Election 2017.

    And PM proclaims this is the most open and transparent Government ever !
    Last edited by iceman; 05-12-2019 at 11:07 PM. Reason: Spelling

  6. #3006
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTM 3442 View Post
    And, with that "incredibly complex history and mix of cultures", they're being very pragmatic in searching for stuff that works for them.

    Those governments which display unwillingness or inability to change eventually reap the whirlwind - as history so amply demonstrates.
    I inititially thought MMP was a good idea. But minority parties choosing the government isn't a great result in my view. We certainly reaped a whirlwind.

  7. #3007
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Labour today denied a request of the former President of NZFirst Lester Gray and Treasurer Colin Forster to be heard at Justice Select Committee. Mr Gray resigned in October saying “This type of operation does not align with my moral and business values”.

    NZ First was the only party to not declare any donations at Election 2017. Its anonymous donations were $342,000 more than ten times any other party. On top of this is $500,000 of secret donations to its foundation. NZ has a right to know who were major funders of the party that determined outcome of Election 2017.

    And PM proclaims this is the most open and transparent Government ever !
    More cynicism from Cindy. Cynical Cindy has a ring to it I think. Or maybe the Cynster. Aunty Helen was known as the Minister of Everything. Cindy could be the Cynister of Everything.

    Anyway certainly squalid behaviour from Labour.

  8. #3008
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    More cynicism from Cindy. Cynical Cindy has a ring to it I think. Or maybe the Cynster. Aunty Helen was known as the Minister of Everything. Cindy could be the Cynister of Everything.

    Anyway certainly squalid behaviour from Labour.
    And here's Cindy quiet as usual when it comes to bad news and uncomfortable truth :

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...jason-kerrison

    "Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has not yet responded to a request for comment."

    Spindoctors paid by taxpayers are busy behind the scenes putting lipsticks on this pig of a story.

  9. #3009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    And here's Cindy quiet as usual when it comes to bad news and uncomfortable truth :

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...jason-kerrison

    "Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has not yet responded to a request for comment."

    Spindoctors paid by taxpayers are busy behind the scenes putting lipsticks on this pig of a story.
    Faafoi always seemed to me to be one of the best of this riff-raff bunch. Even if he's a bit naughty here he's at least more competent than most of them. But how on earth did newshub get hold of the texts to publicise this story?

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    Agree with that FP. Faafoi seems to be a competent Minister. I hope this doesn't undo him. We sure don't need less competent Minister in this Government

  11. #3011
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Faafoi always seemed to me to be one of the best of this riff-raff bunch. Even if he's a bit naughty here he's at least more competent than most of them. But how on earth did newshub get hold of the texts to publicise this story?
    Until he took on part of Housing his portfolios were not challenging. And his housing announcements were for initiatives already well under way.

    People keep saying he is competent, but not hard to be competent in easy portfolios.

    Although, maybe people mean competent in comparison, and that would be fair comment.

  12. #3012
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    Until he took on part of Housing his portfolios were not challenging. And his housing announcements were for initiatives already well under way.

    People keep saying he is competent, but not hard to be competent in easy portfolios.

    Although, maybe people mean competent in comparison, and that would be fair comment.
    Yes, competent in comparison , is exactly what I meant by 'one of the best of this riff-raff bunch'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Faafoi always seemed to me to be one of the best of this riff-raff bunch. Even if he's a bit naughty here he's at least more competent than most of them. But how on earth did newshub get hold of the texts to publicise this story?
    All he seems to have done is to contact his friends local National MP?
    Was it his "friend " who released the texts?
    The National attack dogs scrapping over another meaning less bone.

    westerly

  14. #3014
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    Faafoi has no delicadeza (sense of propriety) or even an honour not to resign. And it's very hard to understand what Ardern's leadership really is.
    Last edited by RGR367; 06-12-2019 at 07:07 PM. Reason: defining delicadeza in parentheses

  15. #3015
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    Quote Originally Posted by westerly View Post
    All he seems to have done is to contact his friends local National MP?
    Was it his "friend " who released the texts?
    The National attack dogs scrapping over another meaning less bone.

    westerly
    Yes. It was his friend, Kerrison, who released the tapes.
    I didn't realise he was a National attack dog, whatever that is. But then, I don't even know what a meaning less bone is. I doubt that anyone other than yourself does.

  16. #3016
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    Jacinda does not look well in today's press conference - she looks pale, rattled and obviously stressed.

    Yet, she fronted the White Island eruption when really, it should be the Minister of Civil Defense and Emergency Management, Peeni Henare.

    What can be read into it?

    A cabinet of incompetents.

  17. #3017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Jacinda does not look well in today's press conference - she looks pale, rattled and obviously stressed.

    Yet, she fronted the White Island eruption when really, it should be the Minister of Civil Defense and Emergency Management, Peeni Henare.

    What can be read into it?

    A cabinet of incompetents.
    A 'pale and stressed' Jacinda would be far more competent to handle a press conference than Henare, even at his best. No doubt we'll get a demo of his 'competence' in the next day or so.

  18. #3018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Jacinda does not look well in today's press conference - she looks pale, rattled and obviously stressed.

    Yet, she fronted the White Island eruption when really, it should be the Minister of Civil Defense and Emergency Management, Peeni Henare.

    What can be read into it?

    A cabinet of incompetents.
    Morning sickness? #2 on the way? Poor thing, like she's not got enough to worry about than a bunch of tourists visiting a live volcano .. I mean, what could possibly go wrong!

    I feel for the tourists, they'e been duped and now predictably the volcano does it's thing as it does frequently and people are hurt. Who to blame, surely not the tourists. ****ing idiot gouging tour operators need their heads read putting punters in the face of certain though unpredictable doom. Walk on a live volcano, yeah right .. great idea.

  19. #3019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Morning sickness? #2 on the way? Poor thing, like she's not got enough to worry about than a bunch of tourists visiting a live volcano .. I mean, what could possibly go wrong!

    I feel for the tourists, they'e been duped and now predictably the volcano does it's thing as it does frequently and people are hurt. Who to blame, surely not the tourists. ****ing idiot gouging tour operators need their heads read putting punters in the face of certain though unpredictable doom. Walk on a live volcano, yeah right .. great idea.
    It certainly is a great idea. Having visited the island several times over the years, it's a rare opportunity to see a living or active volcano. The risk factor is minimal. Way back there was a bunch of miners who worked and lived there, who were wiped out. I think there were ten and were camped in the most vulnerable spot. Sulphur mining stopped in the early 1900s. To the best of my knowledge there has been no loss of life since despite boat loads of visitors inspecting the place daily (in excess of 20,000 per year). In addition there are several helicopter trips every week that land in the crater for a real view.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118...ism-attraction
    Last edited by fungus pudding; 09-12-2019 at 09:02 PM.

  20. #3020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Morning sickness? #2 on the way? Poor thing, like she's not got enough to worry about than a bunch of tourists visiting a live volcano .. I mean, what could possibly go wrong!

    I feel for the tourists, they'e been duped and now predictably the volcano does it's thing as it does frequently and people are hurt. Who to blame, surely not the tourists. ****ing idiot gouging tour operators need their heads read putting punters in the face of certain though unpredictable doom. Walk on a live volcano, yeah right .. great idea.
    https://www.whiteisland.co.nz

    No warning from what I can see about the risk of sudden eruption.

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