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  1. #1381
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Its a bit old, but written in positive times: 10 businesses go bust a day
    https://www.pinpointbusiness.co.nz/s...sinesses-fail/
    I'm aware of the numbers of small businesses that fail. It's not the easy, or profitable life, that many think. There are plenty of small enterprises where the owner makes less than the minimum wage - but for all that I don't believe 50% are on the verge of tipping.
    Last edited by fungus pudding; Today at 04:54 PM.

  2. #1382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond47 View Post

    Pay equity is just how it should be, two employees with the same skillset and experience doing the same job should be paid the same.
    Except in the cases of one going sick all the time and the other doesn't. Also depending on an individuals attitude towards his employer and the place he works.

  3. #1383
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    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    Except in the cases of one going sick all the time and the other doesn't. Also depending on an individuals attitude towards his employer and the place he works.
    One soon runs out of sick days, and the other gets promoted.

  4. #1384
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    I'm aware of the numbers of small businesses that fail. It's not the easy, or profitable life, that many think. There are plenty of small enterprises where the owner makes less than the minimum wage - but for all that I don't believee 50% are on the verge of tipping.
    No ...many just struggle on making ends meet and hoping for the best

    But failure rate is quite high
    With so many bulls around these days you can expect a lot of bulls#@t

  5. #1385
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    No ...many just struggle on making ends meet and hoping for the best

    But failure rate is quite high
    Xero tends to lobby first and foremost to Government and a lot of stats are framed for their agenda at the minute. Been to a few conferences where they have presented stats that not everyone in room in the know agrees with or how they are presented...A lot of small business do have cash flow problems and a lot of companies in specific industries make a loss often with capital gain being the main objective. Some interesting papers released by the TWG...only 500 companies in NZ generate over 80 million turnover and of those 20% derive a loss.

    That would be about the number of companies of a similar size in the business park in LA we are in.

    Hardly big business NZ inc.

    ps Are lot of small businesses do not actually fail in NZ, they just close because of change in circumstance.
    Last edited by Raz; Today at 06:53 PM.

  6. #1386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond47 View Post
    I'd go so far as to say you are irrational. Working for families does not cost the employer, its all tax credits from the govt to the employee. Employer has nothing to do with it.

    Working for families has not pushed up wages, quite the opposite, it has subsidised wages. Employees that wouldn't be able to make ends meet without it have been able to be stay in their jobs because of the handouts, instead of pushing for wage rises to cover their increasing costs of living, or buggering off to somewhere with better pay.

    .
    I’m sorry. In the context of my post I didn’t think I needed to explain “wages”. Obviously I do so here goes.

    Lets take two workers “A” and “B”

    Before Working For Families they both worked 8 hours a day, five days a week and made 500 widgets each. Each worker took home $500 in their pay.

    Then WWF came in. Employee B has 1 child so that entitles him, to lets say $100 extra. So now you have Employee A taking home $500 for his 500 widgets and Employee B taking home $600 for his 500 widgets. Net cost per widget has gone up. Employee B is no more productive but there is a greater cost.

    It gets worse. Say Employee B takes a day off without pay. So he only produces 400 widgets. That week Employee A takes home $500 for his 500 widgets and Employee B takes home $600 for his 400 widgets. See the problem?

    But there is a perversion as well. Say Employee B does 8 hours overtime and produces 600 widgets. He gets paid an extra $100 for his labour. But because he gets paid more gross he gets less WWF - lets call it $100. So now we have employee A taking home $500 for his 500 widgets and Employee B $600 for his 600 widgets. He gets nothing for his increase in productivity. So what does Employee B do – of course he doesn’t work overtime.

    Do you see where I am going with this?

    Now lets say we ditch WWF. And lets say Employee A wants to start a family and Employee A has figured it costs $100 a week to have a child.

    He has a few options. One is to work more hours and increase his productivity. Kinda good. Except he is worker harder not smarter – that’s not productive.

    So instead he decides to educate himself a bit more, upskill, train and get a better job,

    Lo and behold he is now part a higher wage higher skill economy
    Last edited by minimoke; Today at 09:35 PM.

  7. #1387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond47 View Post

    Pay equity is just how it should be, two employees with the same skillset and experience doing the same job should be paid the same.
    Since you raised it, lets look at pay equity. Like it or not the most equitable pay is the total pay package agreed between a willing employer and a willing employee.

    Lets see how that works.

    Say I make widgets. I have a warm, dry sunny widget making place with off street parking. In my staff cafeteria you'll find A2Milk and Robert Harris Coffee. On Friday nights we celebrate our work with me suppling a cold beers and a slice of Hells pizza. I have virtually zero staff turnover and I pay a person $400 for 500 widgets.

    You on the other hand also make widgets except you have a dirty old run down widget place. Your workers have to walk past the Mongrel Mob head quarters because there is no off street parking. There is a jug at the end of their widget bench, Dairy Dale milk next to it and you cant wait to see the back of that lot of pricks on Friday afternoon. Staff turnover is high and you have to pay $500 for a person to make 500 widgets.

    Your employee and my employee have exactly the same widget making skillset and experience and they do they same job. You think they should be paid the same - what should they be paid?

    You also seem confused with inputs (skillset / experience) with output (productivity) but the night is too short to go there.
    Last edited by minimoke; Today at 09:36 PM.

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