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  1. #2266
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Well the Fair Pay report is out. I've had a quick scan but will need to delve into it in a bit more detail. Though I am not particularly inclined to do so.

    One of their findings was out of 148,600 Chief Executives, General Managers and Legislators (incidentally the largest group of workers) 28.59% earnt less than $20 an hour.

    Edit.

    This report requires some very serious Fact Checking. For example it says "We examined the demographics of those working on or near the minimum wage – under $20 perhour.". Current minimum wage is $16.50. $20 is over 20% more than this rate already.
    Last edited by minimoke; 31-01-2019 at 10:46 AM.

  2. #2267
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Moving house for a few months EZ !! Was it a Kiwibuild that was hard to finish ??? Good to have you back :-)
    Cheers. Big job moving gear and finding places for it, plus a few overdue house maintenance jobs so we could swap money from the old house to a newer one. Plus work related stuff.

    Good on Westpac for being the first NZ bank to ensure a living wage to all employees and direct contractors. I hope they're more polite to their customers than they used to be..

    Regarding house construction costs, saw a bit on TV1 about that this morning. Very oblique mention on the cost of aluminium windows by the market commentator. A couple of years ago I needed a few hundred metres of flat ali bar and extrusions. I negotiated a hot trade price, but was stunned when I later figured out that the price per kg I'd paid (significantly cheaper than retail) was about 700% dearer than the bulk aluminium market price for a billet. The cost of the energy to re-melt it isn't high, it points to very high margins being made in that industry, at least in the front end. Sure, you need to spend big on the plant to get into it, but it would soon be paid off. So maybe a lack of competition there.

  3. #2268
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    Cheers. Big job moving gear and finding places for it, plus a few overdue house maintenance jobs so we could swap money from the old house to a newer one.
    You wernt trying to increaase yoru capital and make a gain were you?

    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    Good on Westpac for being the first NZ bank to ensure a living wage to all employees and direct contractors. I hope they're more polite to their customers than they used to be.
    Expecting more out their employees in exchange for more pay seems perfectly reasonable.

  4. #2269
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    You wernt trying to increaase yoru capital and make a gain were you?

    Expecting more out their employees in exchange for more pay seems perfectly reasonable.
    The deal turned out better than my sharemarket foray, if that's what you mean. Westpac have the NZ govt as a big cornerstone client, maybe one reason they have put up this policy, which wouldn't cost much. At the same time they are closing lots of regional banks. These were formerly Trustbanks of course.

    This would be a cunning plan for the party with no friends..

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12199393
    Last edited by elZorro; 02-02-2019 at 09:41 AM.

  5. #2270
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    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    The deal turned out better than my sharemarket foray, if that's what you mean. Westpac have the NZ govt as a big cornerstone client, maybe one reason they have put up this policy, which wouldn't cost much. At the same time they are closing lots of regional banks. These were formerly Trustbanks of course.

    This would be a cunning plan for the party with no friends..

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12199393
    I am not sure Westpac were Trustbank. I used to work for Trustbank. Westpac took us over, integrated Trustbank into the Westpac system and I left.

  6. #2271
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    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    The deal turned out better than my sharemarket foray, if that's what you mean. Westpac have the NZ govt as a big cornerstone client, maybe one reason they have put up this policy, which wouldn't cost much. At the same time they are closing lots of regional banks.
    Thats no surprise. They have figured the cost of labour can be replaced by more efficient technology. I bet those now unemployed people in the regions would sooner have a wage than no wage at all.

  7. #2272
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    I am not sure Westpac were Trustbank. I used to work for Trustbank. Westpac took us over, integrated Trustbank into the Westpac system and I left.
    I'm guessing most of the branches closing used to be regional Trustbanks. We were looking at the Trustbank Super scheme many years ago, it was a good one. Staff and clients got the same deal I think. Westpac took over and increased the fee structure a lot, at least for customers.

  8. #2273
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    I had dinner in Paihia last night and was trying to place where I had seen the Maori woman sitting at the next table (with 3 other diners). It wasn't until I saw one of the other diners was Andrew Little that I twigged she was a reporter on Maori issues. First thought was that Andrew was in the north for Shane Jones annual wingding, but of course, no doubt he is already in preliminary meetings with Waitangi day this week.

  9. #2274
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    I had dinner in Paihia last night and was trying to place where I had seen the Maori woman sitting at the next table (with 3 other diners). It wasn't until I saw one of the other diners was Andrew Little that I twigged she was a reporter on Maori issues. First thought was that Andrew was in the north for Shane Jones annual wingding, but of course, no doubt he is already in preliminary meetings with Waitangi day this week.
    He'd be a useful MP to have up there. I wonder how Don Brash's speech will go down.

    A Herald reporter produces a balanced article looking at the pros and cons of industry-wide settlements being proposed.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12199711

  10. #2275
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    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    He'd be a useful MP to have up there. I wonder how Don Brash's speech will go down.

    A Herald reporter produces a balanced article looking at the pros and cons of industry-wide settlements being proposed.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12199711
    Isn't this a pretty stupid discussion? So - lets pay everybody say 20% more. Should get everybody across the so called living wage threshold. Great. Products obviously need to become dearer - lets say by 20%. Obviously - higher paid people pay higher taxes, i.e. everybody has while nominally more money less purchasing power in their pockets.

    Everybody is poorer - but the government benefits from the automatically rising taxes (remember our progressive and not inflation adjusted taxrates). Oh, I see where this leads - Labour likes poor people and wants to create more poverty - presumably to counter it with higher benefit payouts and increased welfare dependancy.

    Clever strategy ...
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  11. #2276
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Isn't this a pretty stupid discussion? So - lets pay everybody say 20% more. Should get everybody across the so called living wage threshold. Great. Products obviously need to become dearer - lets say by 20%. Obviously - higher paid people pay higher taxes, i.e. everybody has while nominally more money less purchasing power in their pockets.

    Everybody is poorer - but the government benefits from the automatically rising taxes (remember our progressive and not inflation adjusted taxrates). Oh, I see where this leads - Labour likes poor people and wants to create more poverty - presumably to counter it with higher benefit payouts and increased welfare dependency.

    Clever strategy ...
    A circle comes to mind!

  12. #2277
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    more a death spiral ... don't forget that the govenrment takes every round a higher tax rate ...
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  13. #2278
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    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    He'd be a useful MP to have up there. I wonder how Don Brash's speech will go down.

    A Herald reporter produces a balanced article looking at the pros and cons of industry-wide settlements being proposed.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12199711
    I smell a rat by the second paragraph. No business owner should be compelled to think they need to pay a "living wage" which is some arbitrary number dreams up by who knows. Its a number that is obviously fraught given it does not take into account city / region. Palmerston North would arguably be a reasonably cheap place to live. Why should someone there get $20 against the person living in Auckland? And it doesn't take into account family status - have a family get Working For Families). The bar owner simply needs to pay a wage he can afford to pay that the employee is prepared to accept - it is not the bar owners issue on how the employee lives or how that wage gets spent. The best way to pay staff more is to increase profits - which means keeping a tight reign on costs.

    As for the rest. Well we need to get over the notion of "fair" pay. Life isn't fair - that's a simple fact. The go-getters understand this by doing what they can to beat the odds. The lazy wil just moan and expect everyone else to pay for their poor decisions. And thats not fair on everyone else.

    These people are clueless. What would a person sooner have. An individual employer who pays $19 an hour for 40 hours work a week, week after week. Or an industry wide pay $20 where employers will reduce hours and lay people off and spend money on technology.

    Dumbbells like HDPA need to understand that employers don't hate paying more than they have to. You don't see all employers paying the minimum wage which is all they have to pay. If employers thought they could pay just minimum wage doesn't she think they would? No! The smart employers understand that you get what you pay for. How well did Transit do when its employees resigned? not very well I bet!

  14. #2279
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    Yes the 'living wage' is an artificial construct. In its second year the calculation was redone using the original inputs. Oh no, too high, so they arbitrarily reduced the calculation.

    The Treasury has reported that there are two main beneficiaries of the 'living wage'. Young single workers and the government coffers (due to increased tax take and reduced government transfers).

  15. #2280
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    Y (due to increased tax take .
    I'm not sure how that works. PAYE would stay the same as its income between $14,000 and $48,000 so extrs isn't much - at best $1200. So that leave 15% gst. But a companies profit will be less so the 15% gain is offset by the 33% loss ($2310)in corporate tax.

    And how do they work out if a person works 35 hours a week or 40 0r 45?
    Last edited by minimoke; 04-02-2019 at 09:20 PM.

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