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  1. #6881
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Precisely why some cgt systems have a repatriation clause allowing an assett to be sold cgt free provided the assett is replaced within a certain time frame
    That's more like the US system of handling CGT on the principal residence house. Since mortgage interest can be deducted of the individuals taxable income, it's expected sooner or later the capital gain on the home will be recognised. But on most part, MOST Americans pay no CGT on their home as 'death / estate taxes' don't normally apply to the common individual - you have to be in excess of $12 MILLION in assets before those taxes apply.

    Watch out NZ, the Labour + Greens will form some way to tax more from the haves.

  2. #6882
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    Badly flawed premise moka. Can you show me where neo-liberalism was present in the Kirk/Rowling/Muldoon governments of the 70's?

    Your long treatise bears no relation to NZ history. Check your dates for when LABOUR's neo-liberal policies came into play in the late 80's, as a kneejerk reaction to the interventionist policies of the 70s which combined with the oil shocks and formation of the EEC had been a disaster.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    Born and bred here actually westerly. And perhaps you could point me to where neo-liberal economic policies were prevalent in NZ in the 1970s?

    You and moka aren't shy of misrepresenting things to back your point of view are you? Pretty low level of integrity on display.

    Ignoring me doesn't make the truth go away.
    I said why has New Zealand gone backwards in living standards from the mid 1970s = neoliberalism.

    The 1970s was a period of economic stagnation in much of the Western world putting an end to the overall Post–World War II economic expansion. In New Zealand the 1970s was an era plagued by an economic pattern of stagnation, high inflation, rising prices and rising unemployment and high external debts and borrowing. In 1973 OPEC stopped selling oil to the United States. The embargo sent gas prices through the roof. Between 1973-1974, prices more than quadrupled. The embargo contributed to stagflation.

    The answer to the stagflation was neoliberalism. Neoliberalism is not a new idea, the ideas of laissez faire or free markets have been the dominant economic philosophy for centuries. The 1920s were a period of a laissez faire philosophy. Laissez faire means being relatively free of government control or regulation.

    Neoliberalism was part of a paradigm shift that followed the failure of the Keynesian consensus in economics to address the stagflation of the 1970s. Keynes' style of economics encouraged a more active role of the government in order to "manage overall demand so that there was a balance between demand and output". These ideas dominated mainstream economics in the post-war period and formed the mainstream of macroeconomic thought in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.

  3. #6883
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    Quote Originally Posted by moka View Post
    I said why has New Zealand gone backwards in living standards from the mid 1970s = neoliberalism.
    ...
    Muldoon PM from 1975-84 was an old-fashioned state interventionist.

    The UK, which had been NZ's most important trade partner, joined the EEC (now the EU) in 1973. That had an important income generating impact for NZ. There was an urgent need to find new markets for our exports which then faced EEC tariffs and quotas.

  4. #6884
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    Quote Originally Posted by moka View Post
    I said why has New Zealand gone backwards in living standards from the mid 1970s = neoliberalism.

    The 1970s was a period of economic stagnation in much of the Western world putting an end to the overall Post–World War II economic expansion. In New Zealand the 1970s was an era plagued by an economic pattern of stagnation, high inflation, rising prices and rising unemployment and high external debts and borrowing. In 1973 OPEC stopped selling oil to the United States. The embargo sent gas prices through the roof. Between 1973-1974, prices more than quadrupled. The embargo contributed to stagflation.

    The answer to the stagflation was neoliberalism. Neoliberalism is not a new idea, the ideas of laissez faire or free markets have been the dominant economic philosophy for centuries. The 1920s were a period of a laissez faire philosophy. Laissez faire means being relatively free of government control or regulation.

    Neoliberalism was part of a paradigm shift that followed the failure of the Keynesian consensus in economics to address the stagflation of the 1970s. Keynes' style of economics encouraged a more active role of the government in order to "manage overall demand so that there was a balance between demand and output". These ideas dominated mainstream economics in the post-war period and formed the mainstream of macroeconomic thought in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s.
    You continue to dig your hole deeper moka. I'm not sure if those are your words, or if you have lifted them from somewhere (probably should acknowledge them if you have), but it is clear neoliberal policies were a response to a situation that had turned to custard and that living standards were already in decline.

    There is certainly a case to be made that neo-liberal policies exacerbated the problem by increasing the wealth gap/ power imbalance, but the cause of the economic woes of the '70s point far more to interventionism and protectionism alongside the shenanigans of the OPEC cartel.

    The numbers lifted out of extreme poverty worldwide in the last 30 years suggest less interventionism has got some things right (I don't think Capitalism should be completely unfettered) but a side effect is a bigger wealth gap....have a look at the "Mathew Principle"....it would appear to be part of the nature of things.

  5. #6885
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    You continue to dig your hole deeper moka. I'm not sure if those are your words, or if you have lifted them from somewhere (probably should acknowledge them if you have), but it is clear neoliberal policies were a response to a situation that had turned to custard and that living standards were already in decline.

    There is certainly a case to be made that neo-liberal policies exacerbated the problem by increasing the wealth gap/ power imbalance, but the cause of the economic woes of the '70s point far more to interventionism and protectionism alongside the shenanigans of the OPEC cartel.

    The numbers lifted out of extreme poverty worldwide in the last 30 years suggest less interventionism has got some things right (I don't think Capitalism should be completely unfettered) but a side effect is a bigger wealth gap....have a look at the "Mathew Principle"....it would appear to be part of the nature of things.
    China alone would of been responsible of lifting their population out of poverty from 1980 to 2020 (an impressive feat within 40 years). And you know what? ALL THAT came from western trade. Yep the high purchasing power of the US consumers (US consumption) has basically lifted China out of poverty for most of the population to the point that they now produce the most millionaires around the world.

  6. #6886
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobby41 View Post
    You can't go on and off work - there are stand downs.
    Only if you work more than 26 weeks plus holiday pay is assessed however most seasonal employers include the 8% holiday pay in to the hourly rate.

  7. #6887
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Muldoon PM from 1975-84 was an old-fashioned state interventionist.

    The UK, which had been NZ's most important trade partner, joined the EEC (now the EU) in 1973. That had an important income generating impact for NZ. There was an urgent need to find new markets for our exports which then faced EEC tariffs and quotas.
    Now they are banging down our door for a trade deal. Strange decision they made to leave the best trading arrangement in the world.

    What can britain offer us these days. Maybe some more real estate agents and TV shows on sky..
    Last edited by Panda-NZ-; 31-10-2020 at 02:47 PM.

  8. #6888
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    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/h...00000-above-cv

    Not a whisper from Cindy about skyrocketing house prices.

    Enjoy, Labourites and watch the wealth gap opens ever wider under the team of incompetents. What you voted for - thanks as those who can reap huge capital gains benefits!
    Last edited by Balance; 01-11-2020 at 07:39 AM.

  9. #6889
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/h...00000-above-cv

    Not a whisper from Cindy about skyrocketing house prices.

    Enjoy, Labourites and watch the wealth gap opens ever wider under the team of incompetents. What you voted for - thanks as those who can reap huge capital gains benefits!
    Labour already set aside $400,000,000 for 'progressive home ownership'. The intention seems to be that the homeowners get money up front, one way or another, and pay it back over time.

    So really taxpayers, it's like celery - zero calories. Except it will be more like taxpayer input to Kiwibuild, lots of calories.

  10. #6890
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    Labour already set aside $400,000,000 for 'progressive home ownership'. The intention seems to be that the homeowners get money up front, one way or another, and pay it back over time.

    So really taxpayers, it's like celery - zero calories. Except it will be more like taxpayer input to Kiwibuild, lots of calories.
    $400m builds less than 1,000 houses in NZ or less than 500 in Auckland these days - waiting list for homes run into the thousands.

    So taxpayers will be tapped into for the tens of billions of dollars required to build state homes.

    Plenty of money to be made, folks!

    Just make sure you get your share - in fact, more than your share because future generations are going to have to pay for the shopaholic-debt-piling habits of Cindy's team of incompetents.
    Last edited by Balance; 01-11-2020 at 08:17 AM.

  11. #6891
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    And what is Cindy doing about the property market surging out of the reach of first home buyers and rents going up?

    NOTHING - because she and her team of incompetents have not got a clue!

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/pro...an-lvrs-to-fix

    "Given the fundamentals supporting the property market, Patterson said it was not really a bubble. The challenge was the widening gap in wealth between the 60-odd per cent of people who are homeowners, and the rest.

    “For those that are locked out of the housing market at present, it is problematic. We’ve seen rents have actually still gone up across the country, and those people don’t benefit from the lower interest expense.”

  12. #6892
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    Labour already set aside $400,000,000 for 'progressive home ownership'. The intention seems to be that the homeowners get money up front, one way or another, and pay it back over time.

    So really taxpayers, it's like celery - zero calories. Except it will be more like taxpayer input to Kiwibuild, lots of calories.
    The good thing is they can fund it from their secret state house sales program :-)
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...ational-policy

  13. #6893
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    The good thing is they can fund it from their secret state house sales program :-)
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...ational-policy
    As cynical & hypocritical as they come - Cindy & her team of incompetents.

    Enjoy the ‘victory’, Labourites and watch the wealth gap widen further and further over the next 3 years. Then watch Cindy bugger off a d leave the mess for others to clean up.

  14. #6894
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    Yawn ....

    If you intend to carry on ranting for the next three years, you really need to come up with some new material.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    As cynical & hypocritical as they come - Cindy & her team of incompetents.

    Enjoy the ‘victory’, Labourites and watch the wealth gap widen further and further over the next 3 years. Then watch Cindy bugger off a d leave the mess for others to clean up.

  15. #6895
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    Yawn ....

    If you intend to carry on ranting for the next three years, you really need to come up with some new material.
    Seriously, do you think Cindy can deliver on her many promises, especially of affordable homes for NZers?

  16. #6896
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    $400m builds less than 1,000 houses in NZ or less than 500 in Auckland these days - waiting list for homes run into the thousands.

    So taxpayers will be tapped into for the tens of billions of dollars required to build state homes.

    Plenty of money to be made, folks!

    Just make sure you get your share - in fact, more than your share because future generations are going to have to pay for the shopaholic-debt-piling habits of Cindy's team of incompetents.
    The $400 mill is not to build or buy homes. It is apparently for things like rent-to-buy and shared equity. I say 'apparently' because who knows.

    I think we do know some things - for example private sector rent-to-buy schemes have been lucrative in the past for sellers when they recover ownership when the rent-to-buyers miss their contracted responsibilities. Fairly straightforward, but will be a whole lot trickier when lucky taxpayers fall over backwards to keep these recalcitrant households in their homes. So those household don't end up in tears on the 6pm news - bad bad bad optics.

  17. #6897
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    I said new material, not the same old regurgitated stuff we have had to listen to for months. The election is over. Jacinda and Labour won. Get over it. Have you seriously not got anything better to do with your life/time than drag this debate out for eternity? It is a glorious day - go take the dog for a walk, dig your veggie garden, water some flowers. Or maybe even surprise Mrs Balance with an afternoon bonk.

    You will feel better, whichever option you choose. I promise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Seriously, do you think Cindy can deliver on her many promises, especially of affordable homes for NZers?
    Last edited by justakiwi; 01-11-2020 at 12:09 PM.

  18. #6898
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    I said new material, not the same old regurgitated stuff we have had to listen to for months. The election is over. Jacinda and Labour won. Get over it. Have you seriously not got anything better to do with your life/time than drag this debate out for eternity? It is a glorious day - go take the dog for a walk, dig your veggie garden, water some flowers. Or maybe even surprise Mrs Balance with some “afternoon delight.”

    You will feel better, whichever option you choose. I promise.
    Thanks, justakiwi.

    Matter of fact - I had a lovely 2 hours walk around Cornwall Park with Mrs Balance & my daughter this morning, then had lunch of pizza & salad (with honey mustard dressing), listened to and danced to a crooner**** with his saxophone playing sidekick with my daughter at the farmers market - life’s good!

    It’s all about balance and enjoying the good life, right?

    But sadly, as I type in my thoughts after reading the news of the day, I believe in my heart that those who voted for another 3 years of Cindy & her team of incompetents are doomed to see another 3 years of widening gap between those with properties & assets, vs those who are without. The youngsters and first home buyers are going to be the biggest casualties.

    Why? Because leopards do not change their spots and this Cindy dog does not know how to hunt. She is a show dog manipulated & used by the power hungry incompetents.

    Meanwhile ....

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...ee-to-disagree

    The old adage ‘keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer’ comes to mind. Cynical but effective!


    ****Was so lovely dancing to this uplifting tune (jazz style) :

    Smile tho' your heart is aching
    Smile even tho' it's breaking
    When there are clouds in the sky
    You'll get by

    If you smile
    Thro' your fear and sorrow
    Smile and maybe tomorrow
    You'll see the sun come shin-ing thro' for you

    Light up your face with gladness
    Hide ev-'ry trace of sadness
    Altho' a tear may be ever so near
    That's the time
    You must keep on trying

    Smile, what's the use of crying
    You'll find that life is still worth-while
    If you just smile
    Last edited by Balance; 01-11-2020 at 12:39 PM.

  19. #6899
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    I know political hypocrisy is nothing new but the Greens agreement to disagree with the labour certainly raises the bar. We hold fast to our core values, indeed but we also would like to hold on to our ministerial salaries.!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Pepper View Post
    I know political hypocrisy is nothing new but the Greens agreement to disagree with the labour certainly raises the bar. We hold fast to our core values, indeed but we also would like to hold on to our ministerial salaries.!
    Indeed, and Labour would like to hold on to The Greens using our money.

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