Labour / NZ First Government

[westerly]

And what is the next thing we need protecting from? And what methods will they use? And how will it be paid for? And at what cost of lives in subsequent years? Specious argument, I think Fungus.

Fundamentals of our society, Western democracy being ignored, inter generational debt. My fundamental human rights are being interfered with. My god, next we will have jack booted storm troopers marching down the main streets of NZ. People will be locked up for not keeping 2 metres apart.
Get real you don't have human rights, you have obligations to family,society, and your country. You only have rights when someone forgets their obligations. The Govt has as has been suggested an obligation to protect it’s citizens
The word could is the most used word at the moment. This could happen and so on. Come back in 2 years and in hindsight tell us where they went wrong.

westerly

[Bjauck]

Happily we in this country value the principles that keep our democracy stable and working. Comparing it to a Banana Republic and telling me I'm lucky doesn't cut it. Even seemingly benign governments will impose as much power over the individual as they can. To lazily give up Human Rights is a very dangerous thing to do.

I agree with you on this point. Western Society has developed along a twin track of enabling safety, order & prosperity along with personal liberty & human rights. The argument that you should not worry as others have fewer freedoms or rights, would tend to reduce the vigilance to maintain - and improve - existing rights.

From Magna Carta, habeas corpus, through to Bill of Rights and Race Relations Act, these should all be jealously protected from Executive Incursion - even in and perhaps especially in a crisis. Government should be held to account. Executives would otherwise tend to prefer to act with impunity and without scrutiny.

[macduffy]

Well of course the rules have to be changed as circumstances change. We haven't had this situation before; there's no "user guide" for handling a pandemic, the characteristics of which are still not fully understood. Just be thankful that we don't have the UK's problems - four countries, four different ideas as to the next step to take; announcing an arrivals quarantine, eventually, details and timing yet to be determined! Fred Dagg was right, we don't know how lucky we are!

[Balance]

Happily we in this country value the principles that keep our democracy stable and working. Comparing it to a Banana Republic and telling me I'm lucky doesn't cut it. Even seemingly benign governments will impose as much power over the individual as they can. To lazily give up Human Rights is a very dangerous thing to do.

Yup - notice how the narrative from Cindy’s apologists is always to compare with the worse, rather than the best?

Oh, we are doing so well In containing the virus compared to the US or the UK but let’s not compare against Taiwan, HK etc.

[justakiwi]

Why do we have to compare to anybody? Why can’t we simply accept and be be grateful for the fact that we have averted a potential disaster? And don’t try to tell me we would have achieved that without our government’s lockdown actions because that is just a fantasy. As with any project, task or whatever - there is always more than one way to skin a cat. As others have said, there is no rule book for covid19. Every country in the world was flying blind. Every country in the world had to formulate a plan of action for their citizens. Our plan might have been different from some other country’s, but it worked. Read my lips .... it worked!

Things will be tough for a while - everywhere. We do not have that on our own. But we will get through it, like every other difficult situation NZ has been through. Your negative, constantly pessimistic attitude helps nobody. Least of all you.

Yup - notice how the narrative from Cindy’s apologists is always to compare with the worse, rather than the best?

Oh, we are doing so well In containing the virus compared to the US or the UK but let’s not compare against Taiwan, HK etc.

[jonu]

"It was also disappointing to hear the Prime Minister say she's worked with the hospitality association to come up with these guidelines and that's not true at all. We were told about the rules about an hour before. Telling someone what the rules are isn't working with the sector."

Hospitality NZ Wellington branch's Matt McLaughlin quoted in Stuff.

Level 2 rules made up on the hoof after having 6+ weeks to prepare. But don't worry...Cindy doesn't have to justify...she can dismiss. At least according to her own office.

[Joshuatree]

Its a job done well in incredibly fast evolving, first time circumstances cant you acknowledge that reality.
Whats apologising got to do with anything, you're barking up a wilding pine there.

[dobby41]

Level 2 rules made up on the hoof after having 6+ weeks to prepare. But don't worry...Cindy doesn't have to justify...she can dismiss. At least according to her own office.

I can imagine the bitching if they have made the L2 rules 6 weeks ago and stuck to them without looking at what has happened since then.
The understanding of how covid-19 works and what measures work and don't is continually evolving.
Wait until the L2 rules change again in the next few weeks as they learn what is good and what needs work.
It is a good thing that they aren't wedded hard to one stance and are willing to learn as they go. There is no manual for this!

[Balance]

Why do we have to compare to anybody? Why can’t we simply accept and be be grateful for the fact that we have averted a potential disaster? And don’t try to tell me we would have achieved that without our government’s lockdown actions because that is just a fantasy. As with any project, task or whatever - there is always more than one way to skin a cat. As others have said, there is no rule book for covid19. Every country in the world was flying blind. Every country in the world had to formulate a plan of action for their citizens. Our plan might have been different from some other country’s, but it worked. Read my lips .... it worked!

Things will be tough for a while - everywhere. We do not have that on our own. But we will get through it, like every other difficult situation NZ has been through. Your negative, constantly pessimistic attitude helps nobody. Least of all you.

Pessimistic? Have a read of what I wrote when the market fell out of bed and crashed in March - I dare you to find anyone else on this forum with the optimistic conviction I wrote then.

https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showth...-gets-it-right

Point that it worked is great - nobody disagrees with it.

But did NZ need a hammer to crack the nut, when other countries like Taiwan, HK, Australia and South Korea to name 4 showed we did not to.

The wasteland of joblessness and unemployment which Cindy & her incompetents bequeath from the hammer blows will reverberate in depression, hopelessness, debt burden and suicides for years to come.

That is the point which you miss - you don't need a hammer to crack a nut.

[justakiwi]

No, this is the point you are missing. You can only make the comment below based on hindsight. Until the various countries enacted their respective plans of action, nobody knew what would or would not work. That is the reality. Nobody had the benefit of hindsight when they were making those decisions, so you are being totally unfair by continuing to use those comparisons as your “proof” that our government “screwed up.” They did not.

Btw, you need to stop referencing suicide in your arguments - seriously. Mental health experts were talking about this just the other day. When people like you constantly use “there will be an explosion of depression and suicides” propaganda, it has the potential to negatively influence people who may be struggling. Those people need positive messages from the rest of us, not doom and gloom messages that make them believe life is no longer worth living. There is currently no evidence that your claims are even correct. It is nothing more than scaremongering that you have adopted to support your arguments. I am sure even you, do not want blood on your hands. And just so you know, I am deadly serious about this.

That is the point which you miss - you don't need a hammer to crack a nut.