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  1. #81
    Guru justakiwi's Avatar
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    Firstly, I no longer work for the government department in question, and will hopefully never have to work for another one.

    Secondly, when I said governments are in the business of “spending other people’s money” I was referring to the fact that you and I pay taxes and have an expectation that the government of the day will use that money wisely to provide us with quality education and health services, a social welfare service to assist those who (as you said) need a hand from time to time, and an infrastructure in terms of reading, essential services etc. Pretty much on the same page as you in that respect. I’m not going to bother trying to explain the huge benefits of the parental leave entitlement because I seriously doubt you are interested. Let’s just agree to disagree on that one.

    Finally, your closing comment about my “wooly thinking” was unjustified. I apologised in advance if my assumption about your voting was incorrect. I based that assumption on the comments you have made during this discussion and on the many discussions I have had with staunch National supporters who have always voted National without ever questioning why they do that. My own son is one such voter. He votes National because he works in farming and “farmers always vote National.”

    Oh, and by the way, the government departments that cause you to shudder, have been run for the past 9 years by the National government. The one that can do no wrong. Funny that. Why do you think I left.

  2. #82
    Membaa
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    It's a terrible conundrum to be a business owner and balance the hiring decisions between honest diversity, even choosing the best young lady for the job and whether you be paying that young lady for half a year off work, and the additional salary for the backfill hire, when she has a baby.

  3. #83
    Guru justakiwi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    It's a terrible conundrum to be a business owner and balance the hiring decisions between honest diversity, even choosing the best young lady for the job and whether you be paying that young lady for half a year off work, and the additional salary for the backfill hire, when she has a baby.
    I get it. There is no easy answer. But at the same time I think the “if you can’t afford to have kids you shouldn’t have them” argument, is oversimplifying things. For most low and middle income earners the reality is if they wait until they can afford to have kids, they would never have them. At the same time, we need a certain level of population growth. So, either we are a nation where only the rich have babies, or we face the fact that we as a country need to be willing to offer some financial support to parents along the way. As a mother of four now grown children I was fortunate to be raising them at a time when we could afford to live off one income, so I was able to be at home and focus on raising our children. That is no longer the norm.

    I’m not saying this government will get it all right. No government would. But I think they are smarter than many believe, and I think we have every reason to feel optimistic. Rome wasn’t built in a day however so lets just see how things pan out over the next 6 months before writing them off.

  4. #84
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    I get it. There is no easy answer. But at the same time I think the “if you can’t afford to have kids you shouldn’t have them” argument, is oversimplifying things.
    No, not really. It is as simple as that. If people don't get that the first responsibility of a parent is to look after your child then so many other lessons will be lost

    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    For most low and middle income earners the reality is if they wait until they can afford to have kids, they would never have them.
    Having children is a privilege not a right. To enjoy that privilege sometimes sacrifices may need t0 be made. And perhaps some people (or at least their offspring) are better off not reproducing. (i wont even go into the argument of limited families depending on socio-economic status)

    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    At the same time, we need a certain level of population growth.
    Do we? Really!. People cant argue the need to take money off us to prevent global warming on one hand and then take money off us to keep the population growing on the other. That just doesn't make sense.



    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    So, either we are a nation where only the rich have babies, or we face the fact that we as a country need to be willing to offer some financial support to parents along the way.
    You are self limiting your argument by suggesting only the rich will have children. It is always possible for others to have and raise families - it just needs to be within their means.

    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    As a mother of four now grown children I was fortunate to be raising them at a time when we could afford to live off one income, so I was able to be at home and focus on raising our children. That is no longer the norm.

    Mortgage/interest rates, inflation and unemployment rates are all at historic levels. This is as good as it gets.


    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    I’m not saying this government will get it all right. No government would. But I think they are smarter than many believe, and I think we have every reason to feel optimistic. Rome wasn’t built in a day however so lets just see how things pan out over the next 6 months before writing them off.
    It is far too early in this governments cycle to even think that they might be smart - only time will tell

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    It's a terrible conundrum to be a business owner and balance the hiring decisions between honest diversity, even choosing the best young lady for the job and whether you be paying that young lady for half a year off work, and the additional salary for the backfill hire, when she has a baby.
    Don't worry. Equity legislation will come that will require you to report on your gender / pay balance and if the numbers don't suit you can expect a visit from an Inspector.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post

    The fact that the majority of voters voted for a party other than National was a vote for change.
    justakiwi this is a ridiculous statement. That means every single election is a "vote for change" in your books as we have never (and probably never will) had a party gain more than 50% of the popular vote under MMP !

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    I was referring to the fact that you and I pay taxes and have an expectation that the government of the day will use that money wisely
    You have me confused for another poster - I have no (that is zero) expectation that a government will use my money wisely. Instead I think it will go to their "pet projects"

    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    Oh, and by the way, the government departments that cause you to shudder, have been run for the past 9 years by the National government. The one that can do no wrong. Funny that. Why do you think I left.
    I have no idea.

  8. #88
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    More excellent wise money spending ideas from our Government. First year tertiary education free - for Australians!

  9. #89
    Guru justakiwi's Avatar
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    Time for me to bow out of this “discussion”, not because I feel I am beaten but because I realise that these kinds of debates, especially political, really achieve nothing. They also create stress that serves no good purpose. Besides which its past my bedtime. In the words of Douglas Adams “So long and thanks for all the fish.”

  10. #90
    Reincarnated Panthera Snow Leopard's Avatar
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    Red face No it's not



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