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  1. #5441
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Well that got rid of the bear. Hard to believe anyone is that sensitive to a little applied Godwin's law.
    I agree with RupertBear that the comparison with Hitler is distasteful. It is also lazy, and not relevant.

    Mike Godwin, for his part, has asserted that Hitler comparisons tend to be lazy in a debate. “I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust.” That said, Godwin stipulates that he doesn’t think Hitler comparisons should always be off the table, just that their relevance should be considered carefully. He wrote, “If you’re thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler or Nazis when you talk about Trump. Or any other politician.
    https://www.dictionary.com/e/memes/godwins-law/

  2. #5442
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    Some words of wisdom about having conversations with people you disagree with. Bring on the intellectual debate.

    https://www.maxim.org.nz/justice-open-debate/
    We need to be brave enough to agree with the ideas of people we regularly disagree with on other issues. We could even learn to have conversations about the issues we disagree on. The conversation will likely end with both people holding their original position and that’s okay. What’s important is that everyone leaves with a deeper understanding of the person they disagree with and why they disagreed in the first place.
    While that’s easier said than done, it’s incredibly important for the functioning of society. In fact, without healthy disagreements, strong societal divisions are much more likely to arise. The Coddling of the American Mind, by Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukianoff, confronts this very issue. They suggest that having conversations with people you disagree with are essential for building resilience and learning to adapt and grow. Of course, this doesn’t mean that anything goes. Bullying is never okay. But there’s a difference between bullying and thorough intellectual debate.

  3. #5443
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    Comrade Cindy’s hypocrisy on full display :

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...cebook-account

    “But she won’t be deleting her account because it wouldn’t be expedient, especially in an election year.“

    As cynical as you can get from a ‘leader’.
    Last edited by Balance; 02-08-2020 at 08:23 AM.

  4. #5444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Comrade Cindy’s hypocrisy on full display :

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...cebook-account

    “But she won’t be deleting her account because it wouldn’t be expedient, especially in an election year.“

    As cynical as you can get from a ‘leader’.
    I see you got to pager 43 of the Sunday Star Times but you conveniently omit the article on the opinion polls on page 21 and I think that article is way more telling for the Nats - they're pretty much stuffed for this election.

  5. #5445
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    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300...ical-poll?rm=a
    A good chart in this article that shows how the four political parties have fared in Newshub/Reid Research polls since 2008. It clearly shows how Labour’s popularity increased three years ago when Jacinda became leader of the Labour Party.
    A picture is worth a thousand words.

  6. #5446
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Well that got rid of the bear. Hard to believe anyone is that sensitive to a little applied Godwin's law.
    Haaaa WRONG The Bear is back! On reflection and after receiving positive feedback encouraging me to stay on board I am back I just wont be feeding any trolls

  7. #5447
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    Quote Originally Posted by RupertBear View Post
    Haaaa WRONG The Bear is back! On reflection and after receiving positive feedback encouraging me to stay on board I am back I just wont be feeding any trolls

  8. #5448
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    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/122310902/election-2020-how-do-you-run-against-elimination
    Since the late 1990s political purists in New Zealand have bemoaned the fact that the two major political parties are too similar. Both have bought into the “neo-liberalism” of Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson and have just been making adjustments in one direction or another, so the rather boring arguments went.

    Now, for the first time in almost three decades, there will be a stark ideological choice at this election around the role of the state. Labour, on the one hand, is battling to retain its basically technocratic and fiscally prudent formula of the Clark years. However, it appears ready and willing to seriously crank up the overall level of government spending and activity.
    Fiscal prudence and high levels of spending can co-exist, but they require high taxes that tend to drag on economic growth. Labour definitely has faith that, in a post-Covid era, the state can be put back into the centre of economic co-ordination. Not a command economy, mind you, but one where Labour thinks that ‘’market failures’’ can be comfortably corrected.

    National, on the other hand, is developing a full-throated centre-right agenda of lower taxes, deregulation, and a plan to let the animal spirits of economic growth unleash to kick-start the economy. That will be backed up by massive infrastructure spending on road, bus lanes and rail, mostly in the north from Hamilton to Auckland and its surrounds, and various sorts of Covid business support.
    There is a real choice. And, as with the first Labour Government under Michael Joseph Savage elected during the Depression, on current polling there will likely be an opportunity for this Labour Government to institute its vision. Make no mistake, Labour is on track to win a clear majority.

  9. #5449
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    I'm not convinced people are actually considering policy all that much. The swing voters I've (carefully) spoken to in the course of business, have indicated that they like Jacinda, and that they feel safe. When I've raised policy, shoulders are shrugged. That's really disappointing.

  10. #5450
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    As a swinging voter, I look for/need both. Policy I believe in, that aligns with my personal values, and a party leader I like and trust (as much as one can ever trust any politician). National has not been able to provide me with any of that, for at least the last 10 years. Labour has not been perfect (who is?) but in a two party system, they have been the better option, for me.

    I am always open to change, but at this point in time I see nothing ​in National’s policy or leadership that would earn my vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    I'm not convinced people are actually considering policy all that much. The swing voters I've (carefully) spoken to in the course of business, have indicated that they like Jacinda, and that they feel safe. When I've raised policy, shoulders are shrugged. That's really disappointing.

  11. #5451
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    There but for the vigilance of NZers, the whistle blowers, Woodhouse and the grace of whichever religion you may or not follow, NZ would have gone the same way as Victoria due to the first 2 months of disgracefully incompetent & uncontrolled quarantine shambles & mess in NZ.

    https://www.news.com.au/national/vic...54350f4388397a

    Excerpt : "Victoria’s descent into a new wave of infections started amid a scandal over quarantine and security breaches in a series of Melbourne hotels.
    Last month, Melbourne’s quarantine hotels were identified as a key source behind the virus’s terrifying escalation throughout the state."
    Last edited by Balance; 03-08-2020 at 10:51 AM.

  12. #5452
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    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/rest-home...abd9f-97843407

    Rest homes proactively taking steps to protect their residents rebuked by Ministry of Health.

    This is NZ today under Comrade Cindy’s bunch of incompetents - Nanny state knows best so just you listen and obey the incompetents.

    We know the rest homes were right and Comrade Cindy & her incompetents with the MOH could not even run a quarantine system properly without endangering all NZers through their gross incompetence.

  13. #5453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    There but for the vigilance of NZers, the whistle blowers, Woodhouse and the grace of whichever religion you may or not follow, NZ would have gone the same way as Victoria due to our first 2 months of quarantine shambles & mess.
    What a silly statement.
    We didn't go the way of Vic because we did it better.
    QLD did it better, as did WA and others.
    I understand how you like to think Woodhouse saved the day but that just isn't true and you repeating it ad nauseam doesn't make it true.

  14. #5454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    I'm not convinced people are actually considering policy all that much. The swing voters I've (carefully) spoken to in the course of business, have indicated that they like Jacinda, and that they feel safe. When I've raised policy, shoulders are shrugged. That's really disappointing.
    Agree and think it is quite sad that we are not seeing any real policy debates so far and Labour seems hellbent on avoiding it, which makes sense for them politically. Not so much for NZ. Have to say though that Minister Sepuloni and National's Louise Upston debating social welfare policy on weekend TV was refreshing and showed clear differences. But as you say, I don't think people are tuned in at the moment.

  15. #5455
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobby41 View Post
    What a silly statement.
    We didn't go the way of Vic because we did it better.
    QLD did it better, as did WA and others.
    I understand how you like to think Woodhouse saved the day but that just isn't true and you repeating it ad nauseam doesn't make it true.
    If the quarantine mess here was not highlighted (well documented which is why David Clark was 'fired') & fixed - we would unquestionably be having the communal spread out there now.

    Why do you think NZers were so cheesed off with the government?

  16. #5456
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    Quote Originally Posted by RupertBear View Post
    Haaaa WRONG The Bear is back! On reflection and after receiving positive feedback encouraging me to stay on board I am back I just wont be feeding any trolls
    Thats it starve it until it shrivels up.

    Dont feed the troll its like putting out fire with gasoline.This behaviour has been going on for years, This troll craves attention (fuel) and will stop at nothing to get its feed.

  17. #5457
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    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12353102

    A government without any major policies to announce for this election - because those without myopic glasses know that Comrade Cindy cannot point out any major policy successes from the huge promises made last election to hoodwink voters.

    Well, NZers are going to find out the devastating way that their future generations are going to pay big time for the current generation of society’s losers being led towards the cliff and towards doom.

    Those of us in the know will do very well from the free spending underway - just make sure you maximise whatever you can make for your own future generations.

  18. #5458
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    If the quarantine mess here was not highlighted (well documented which is why David Clark was 'fired') & fixed - we would unquestionably be having the communal spread out there now.

    Why do you think NZers were so cheesed off with the government?
    Hardly cheesed off - check the latest opinion polls government is quite popular or did you conveniently forget that?

  19. #5459
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim23 View Post
    Hardly cheesed off - check the latest opinion polls government is quite popular or did you conveniently forget that?
    We are talking quarantine.

    Why do you think Comrade Cindy sacrificed David Clark to appease the anger out there?

    Again, history shows us popular does not necessarily = good for the country.

    Hitler was extremely popular and where did it led to?
    Last edited by Balance; 03-08-2020 at 12:47 PM.

  20. #5460
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    Deleted.......
    Last edited by justakiwi; 03-08-2020 at 02:11 PM. Reason: Don’t feed the trolls

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