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  1. #5441
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Well that got rid of the bear. Hard to believe anyone is that sensitive to a little applied Godwin's law.
    I agree with RupertBear that the comparison with Hitler is distasteful. It is also lazy, and not relevant.

    Mike Godwin, for his part, has asserted that Hitler comparisons tend to be lazy in a debate. “I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust.” That said, Godwin stipulates that he doesn’t think Hitler comparisons should always be off the table, just that their relevance should be considered carefully. He wrote, “If you’re thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler or Nazis when you talk about Trump. Or any other politician.
    https://www.dictionary.com/e/memes/godwins-law/

  2. #5442
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    Some words of wisdom about having conversations with people you disagree with. Bring on the intellectual debate.

    https://www.maxim.org.nz/justice-open-debate/
    We need to be brave enough to agree with the ideas of people we regularly disagree with on other issues. We could even learn to have conversations about the issues we disagree on. The conversation will likely end with both people holding their original position and that’s okay. What’s important is that everyone leaves with a deeper understanding of the person they disagree with and why they disagreed in the first place.
    While that’s easier said than done, it’s incredibly important for the functioning of society. In fact, without healthy disagreements, strong societal divisions are much more likely to arise. The Coddling of the American Mind, by Jonathan Haidt and Greg Lukianoff, confronts this very issue. They suggest that having conversations with people you disagree with are essential for building resilience and learning to adapt and grow. Of course, this doesn’t mean that anything goes. Bullying is never okay. But there’s a difference between bullying and thorough intellectual debate.

  3. #5443
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    Comrade Cindy’s hypocrisy on full display :

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...cebook-account

    “But she won’t be deleting her account because it wouldn’t be expedient, especially in an election year.“

    As cynical as you can get from a ‘leader’.
    Last edited by Balance; 02-08-2020 at 08:23 AM.

  4. #5444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Comrade Cindy’s hypocrisy on full display :

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/pol...cebook-account

    “But she won’t be deleting her account because it wouldn’t be expedient, especially in an election year.“

    As cynical as you can get from a ‘leader’.
    I see you got to pager 43 of the Sunday Star Times but you conveniently omit the article on the opinion polls on page 21 and I think that article is way more telling for the Nats - they're pretty much stuffed for this election.

  5. #5445
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    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300...ical-poll?rm=a
    A good chart in this article that shows how the four political parties have fared in Newshub/Reid Research polls since 2008. It clearly shows how Labour’s popularity increased three years ago when Jacinda became leader of the Labour Party.
    A picture is worth a thousand words.

  6. #5446
    Aspiring to be an Awesome Bear
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Well that got rid of the bear. Hard to believe anyone is that sensitive to a little applied Godwin's law.
    Haaaa WRONG The Bear is back! On reflection and after receiving positive feedback encouraging me to stay on board I am back I just wont be feeding any trolls

  7. #5447
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    Quote Originally Posted by RupertBear View Post
    Haaaa WRONG The Bear is back! On reflection and after receiving positive feedback encouraging me to stay on board I am back I just wont be feeding any trolls

  8. #5448
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    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/122310902/election-2020-how-do-you-run-against-elimination
    Since the late 1990s political purists in New Zealand have bemoaned the fact that the two major political parties are too similar. Both have bought into the “neo-liberalism” of Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson and have just been making adjustments in one direction or another, so the rather boring arguments went.

    Now, for the first time in almost three decades, there will be a stark ideological choice at this election around the role of the state. Labour, on the one hand, is battling to retain its basically technocratic and fiscally prudent formula of the Clark years. However, it appears ready and willing to seriously crank up the overall level of government spending and activity.
    Fiscal prudence and high levels of spending can co-exist, but they require high taxes that tend to drag on economic growth. Labour definitely has faith that, in a post-Covid era, the state can be put back into the centre of economic co-ordination. Not a command economy, mind you, but one where Labour thinks that ‘’market failures’’ can be comfortably corrected.

    National, on the other hand, is developing a full-throated centre-right agenda of lower taxes, deregulation, and a plan to let the animal spirits of economic growth unleash to kick-start the economy. That will be backed up by massive infrastructure spending on road, bus lanes and rail, mostly in the north from Hamilton to Auckland and its surrounds, and various sorts of Covid business support.
    There is a real choice. And, as with the first Labour Government under Michael Joseph Savage elected during the Depression, on current polling there will likely be an opportunity for this Labour Government to institute its vision. Make no mistake, Labour is on track to win a clear majority.

  9. #5449
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    I'm not convinced people are actually considering policy all that much. The swing voters I've (carefully) spoken to in the course of business, have indicated that they like Jacinda, and that they feel safe. When I've raised policy, shoulders are shrugged. That's really disappointing.

  10. #5450
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    As a swinging voter, I look for/need both. Policy I believe in, that aligns with my personal values, and a party leader I like and trust (as much as one can ever trust any politician). National has not been able to provide me with any of that, for at least the last 10 years. Labour has not been perfect (who is?) but in a two party system, they have been the better option, for me.

    I am always open to change, but at this point in time I see nothing ​in National’s policy or leadership that would earn my vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    I'm not convinced people are actually considering policy all that much. The swing voters I've (carefully) spoken to in the course of business, have indicated that they like Jacinda, and that they feel safe. When I've raised policy, shoulders are shrugged. That's really disappointing.

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