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  1. #4201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda-NZ- View Post
    We are likely to come out of this in world leading shape in almost all aspects, why risk the change?
    Because, with any luck, New Zealand is unlikely to suffer another term of disasters such as endured recently and is more likely to need sound government, than star-quality empathy.

  2. #4202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda-NZ- View Post
    We are likely to come out of this in world leading shape in almost all aspects, why risk the change?
    Because it is less of a risk than leaving the economy to such a nugatory dead-beat assorted collection of riff-raff misfits.

  3. #4203
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Because it is less of a risk than leaving the economy to such a nugatory dead-beat assorted collection of riff-raff misfits.
    Learnt a new word 'nugatory' today - thanks. And agreed, hard to get a more useless bunch of economic incompetents who have failed to deliver anything.

  4. #4204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Learnt a new word 'nugatory' today - thanks. And agreed, hard to get a more useless bunch of economic incompetents who have failed to deliver anything.
    They have delivered a covid-free NZ and allieviated a recession/depression. The only reasonable response is to thank Cindy for saving lives (including yours) jobs and other minor things like those.
    Last edited by Panda-NZ-; 23-05-2020 at 03:54 PM.

  5. #4205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda-NZ- View Post
    They have delivered a covid free NZ and allieviated a recession/depression. The appropriate response is to thank Cindy for saving lives (including yours) jobs and other things.
    If she had acted earlier (like Taiwan), we would not have needed the self-acknowledged 'strictest' job-destructive lockdown in the world.

    I have higher expectations than what have been delivered.

  6. #4206
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    So we are in second place rather than first, a hardly relevant issue considering what else is going on in the world. I guaruntee Nats would have kept the borders open (simon only said he wouldn't after the fact). They have opposed extending the lockdown time and again.
    Last edited by Panda-NZ-; 23-05-2020 at 04:59 PM.

  7. #4207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panda-NZ- View Post
    They have delivered a covid-free NZ and allieviated a recession/depression. The only reasonable response is to thank Cindy for saving lives (including yours) jobs and other minor things like those.
    You do not know if they have alleviated or elevated a recession or depression. You do not know if they have saved lives, or cost lives. I do not know either. Nobody knows or can possibly know for ten years or more. We do know that they have cost jobs. Whatever course of action taken was a gamble. I take my hat off to her for sticking to the decision they made and for fronting the campaign in the bold manner she did. But that does not deserve thanks.

  8. #4208
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    You do not know if they have alleviated or elevated a recession or depression. You do not know if they have saved lives, or cost lives. I do not know either. Nobody knows or can possibly know for ten years or more. We do know that they have cost jobs. Whatever course of action taken was a gamble. I take my hat off to her for sticking to the decision they made and for fronting the campaign in the bold manner she did. But that does not deserve thanks.
    There is a detailed guest post on Kiwiblog today reviewing official UK EMR (excess mortalities rate). Worth a read.

  9. #4209
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    There is a detailed guest post on Kiwiblog today reviewing official UK EMR (excess mortalities rate). Worth a read.
    I presume this is the url you mean?

    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/05/g...19_deaths.html

  10. #4210
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    I presume this is the url you mean?

    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/05/g...19_deaths.html
    Yes, that's the one. I was going to add a summary but the phone rang. Interesting that some countries produce this data weekly. I had a quick look here on the Stats site, but couldn't see anything v recent. (They are fast and helpful in responding to web requests. A good service.)

    What do you think?

  11. #4211
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    Yes, that's the one. I was going to add a summary but the phone rang. Interesting that some countries produce this data weekly. I had a quick look here on the Stats site, but couldn't see anything v recent. (They are fast and helpful in responding to web requests. A good service.)

    What do you think?
    Let you know in 2035. March.

  12. #4212
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    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post

    Very few of us ever choose to be on a benefit. It is soul destroying and demoralising and people......
    If that were true New Zealand would be a much better place. For some people / multiple generations, believe it or not, it is a career.
    That is one of the reasons I have voted for National (once or twice) in the past...as I thought they had a better plan to break the cycle.

  13. #4213
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    Yes, you are correct that some beneficiaries are as you describe. But the vast majority are not. It really bothers me that my fellow Kiwis still hold onto this false belief and judge people based on a few. As I said before, walk in the shoes I once walked in, and then come back and tell me I was a bludger for needing and accepting social assistance.

    And btw, National never solved any of these problems either. No more than they solved our horrific child abuse/domestic violence problems. Both governments have tried, but sometimes there are simply no solutions. As someone who worked for CYF for eight years (not a social worker) I can attest to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    If that were true New Zealand would be a much better place. For some people / multiple generations, believe it or not, it is a career.
    That is one of the reasons I have voted for National (once or twice) in the past...as I thought they had a better plan to break the cycle.

  14. #4214
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    If that were true New Zealand would be a much better place. For some people / multiple generations, believe it or not, it is a career.
    That is one of the reasons I have voted for National (once or twice) in the past...as I thought they had a better plan to break the cycle.
    Bill turned it into effectively a basic income and ignored long term recipients. There was no serious attempt to fix it and there maybe shouldn't be. It's only marketing and optics.
    Last edited by Panda-NZ-; Yesterday at 10:20 AM.

  15. #4215
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    If that were true New Zealand would be a much better place. For some people / multiple generations, believe it or not, it is a career...
    And can be a career supplemented by the very large black and grey economy. Conservatively estimated at around $20 billion a year.

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