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  1. #2971
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    The Greens are pushing the Marxist notion of Citizen's Assembly. Where 100+ people are randomly selected and formulate policy for the government to implement. Which means of course that you can do away with elections, you just have an administration. Might as well call that administration the Communist Party of the People's Republic of .... (Fill in country name). Scary stuff.
    They are? Certainly sounds beyond scary! Can you cite a reference?

  2. #2972
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    The Greens are pushing the Marxist notion of Citizen's Assembly. Where 100+ people are randomly selected and formulate policy for the government to implement. Which means of course that you can do away with elections, you just have an administration. Might as well call that administration the Communist Party of the People's Republic of .... (Fill in country name). Scary stuff.
    You are saying this is Green policy? Haven't heard that about that one, certainly sounds like one of these made up urban myths. But anyway - no matter what it is, what has this to do with MMP?
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  3. #2973
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Supplementary member was my choice. MMP gives to much power to parties who have just scrapped over the line. e.g. NZ First. I still shudder when I picture Peters on TV with 5% of the vote advising the nation who he had decided would be the govt.
    At least under MMP the parties should sort out the coalition and go to the GG who could make the announcement.
    Peters did it in the most arrogant way possible. Puke making. And surely a party should have to gain more than the minimum 5% before demanding the deputy PM role. MMP has room for improvement, although SMP would still be better IMO. Amen.
    I guess it is the old battle between being fair and being pragmatic ...

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=10767632

    SM reduces the voice of the minorities and diversity and makes it easier for the arbitrary and / or populist winner of the day to run the next 3 years a quasi-dictatorship. Quite dangerous if you consider that one fake facebook story these days can determine the outcome of an election.

    I think I prefer fair, even if it is a bit more tedious ...
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  4. #2974
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    They are? Certainly sounds beyond scary! Can you cite a reference?
    I read an article a few days ago where the Greens were front and centre at a seminar on this stuff. They had input from Ireland and the UK where apparently this Citizen's Assembly stuff is gaining traction and has been trialled.

  5. #2975
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    You are saying this is Green policy? Haven't heard that about that one, certainly sounds like one of these made up urban myths. But anyway - no matter what it is, what has this to do with MMP?
    I don't know if it is Greens Policy. The article I read said they were central to a seminar held on it recently. The attendees sounded like a who's who of leftie agitators. Moana Jackson's name was mentioned along with Chloe Swarbrick. Google Citizens Assembly. It's breaking out all over. It would seem the 20thC didn't teach us much.

    What has it to do with MMP? A Citizen's Assembly is an unelected list of people. Sound Familiar? It would be an easy transition from MMP.

  6. #2976
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    I don't know if it is Greens Policy. The article I read said they were central to a seminar held on it recently. The attendees sounded like a who's who of leftie agitators. Moana Jackson's name was mentioned along with Chloe Swarbrick. Google Citizens Assembly. It's breaking out all over. It would seem the 20thC didn't teach us much.

    What has it to do with MMP? A Citizen's Assembly is an unelected list of people. Sound Familiar? It would be an easy transition from MMP.
    Certainly a few articles about it. Don't think I'll panic yet though.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=citi...w=1707&bih=900

  7. #2977
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Certainly a few articles about it. Don't think I'll panic yet though.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=citi...w=1707&bih=900
    Part of our government is developing and pushing for this. They will use the Green/Climate Change narrative to usher it in the back door. The Climate Change ideaology is a perfect fit and smokescreen to push for Marxist reforms. That is not to say that the average person concerned with Climate Change is Marxist. However the hysteria being developed will and is, in my view, being used to push Marxist agendas.

  8. #2978
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    Labour going to stamp out foreigners donating to political parties

    Bit of joke really ...so many ways around it

    Suppose it’s a matter of being seen to act without making any difference.
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  9. #2979
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    There are ways around many laws, regulations, rules - does that mean we should just not bother trying? If National was doing this would you be calling it a joke, or giving them credit for trying?

    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Labour going to stamp out foreigners donating to political parties

    Bit of joke really ...so many ways around it

    Suppose it’s a matter of being seen to act without making any difference.

  10. #2980
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    I don't know if it is Greens Policy. The article I read said they were central to a seminar held on it recently. The attendees sounded like a who's who of leftie agitators. Moana Jackson's name was mentioned along with Chloe Swarbrick. Google Citizens Assembly. It's breaking out all over. It would seem the 20thC didn't teach us much.

    What has it to do with MMP? A Citizen's Assembly is an unelected list of people. Sound Familiar? It would be an easy transition from MMP.
    Jeez - is this how fake news is made up?

    I haven't seen any evidence that this is Greens or governments policy. And really - looking at the idea - it seems to be nothing different than a panel of random people developing some policy which may or may not be adopted by people who are properly elected and authorized to make this decision. I don't know whether this is s a good idea, but it sounds to me quite less serious than e.g. the idea that a panel of twelve un-elected random people is to decide about someone else's freedom and in some countries about her/his life.

    They call this panel a "jury" and they do this in many countries (including New Zealand) for ages. While I don't think it is a particular good way to achieve justice - I would not call it 'Marxist'. Do you?

    I really think you should worry more about the populist liars (Trump, Johnson, Putin, Erdogan & Co) who actually are dismantling freedom and democracy in their respective countries as we speak instead of building up a "Marxist" strawman.
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  11. #2981
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Jeez - is this how fake news is made up?

    I haven't seen any evidence that this is Greens or governments policy. And really - looking at the idea - it seems to be nothing different than a panel of random people developing some policy which may or may not be adopted by people who are properly elected and authorized to make this decision. I don't know whether this is s a good idea, but it sounds to me quite less serious than e.g. the idea that a panel of twelve un-elected random people is to decide about someone else's freedom and in some countries about her/his life.

    They call this panel a "jury" and they do this in many countries (including New Zealand) for ages. While I don't think it is a particular good way to achieve justice - I would not call it 'Marxist'. Do you?

    I really think you should worry more about the populist liars (Trump, Johnson, Putin, Erdogan & Co) who actually are dismantling freedom and democracy in their respective countries as we speak instead of building up a "Marxist" strawman.
    "Fake News"?

    No where did I say it was government or Greens policy. I did say the Greens were promoting the idea at a seminar.

    No where did I talk about 12 member juries. A jury has nothing to do with what the Greens are exploring in 100+ member Citizens assemblies who will be unelected policy developers.

    Fake News and Strawmen? Your whole post reeks of it.

  12. #2982
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    Part of our government is developing and pushing for this. They will use the Green/Climate Change narrative to usher it in the back door. The Climate Change ideaology is a perfect fit and smokescreen to push for Marxist reforms. That is not to say that the average person concerned with Climate Change is Marxist. However the hysteria being developed will and is, in my view, being used to push Marxist agendas.
    Total fakery and fear mongering ; conspiracies around every corridor? And you dont believe in climate change either?

  13. #2983
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Total fakery and fear mongering ; conspiracies around every corridor? And you dont believe in climate change either?
    That's plainly ridiculous. I doubt there is anyone over the age of 5 in the whole world that thinks climate is static or fixed, i.e. it doesn't change.

  14. #2984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Total fakery and fear mongering ; conspiracies around every corridor? And you dont believe in climate change either?
    Are you calling me a liar JT?

  15. #2985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Total fakery and fear mongering ; conspiracies around every corridor? And you dont believe in climate change either?
    One of Labour's bedfellows is openly exploring the process of Citizen's Assemblies. It is a Marxist idea and incredibly dangerous to our democracy.
    Which part of the above is fakery? Which part is fear mongering? You are continually telling people to open their minds, yet I consider you to be among the more bigoted people on this thread.

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