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  1. #1621
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    And the next crusade from Labour and the Greens will be to make our children bilingual by force.
    Thats not quite true. They plan to make it a "core" subject. Which means another Core Subject will need to be sidelined. Given the lack of te reo teachers (and virtually no trainees in the pipeline) its highly unlikely children will become bi-lingual. Unless there is a quota and bonus incentive scheme introduced at the Trainee level.

    I'm at a loss - I thought it was a parents responsibility to teach a child how to at least converse in the "native" language" and to give them some exposure to the written word by the time they hit school.

    I have no problem with other languages being introduced to the curriculum - but this should be a Board decision which would support the community aspirations. (My spawn have given French and Chinese a shot - but they pulled out. Maybe it was because I told them I wasnt funding a trip to France or China for two weeks. And I wouldn't mind if they could write English legibly)

    Incidentally it is Hindi Language week this week so I look forward to more of this language over the next few days

  2. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    ...
    BUT, Maori it should not be. It should be a language that actually advances our young people´s standing in the World and gives them added opportunities. The Maori language is of NO USE whatsoever for them and this ¨politically correct¨ nonsense and social engineering infuriates me.
    Maybe the government will be aiming for Te Reo to be given a similar to treatment to Irish in Ireland. I think Irish in Ireland has been promoted without detracting from other education and language-learning goals. At the same time as promoting Erse, Ireland has opened itself socially and has been able to develop its economy and international relationships. In comparison, its neighbour - mono-lingual England - seems to be withdrawing into itself and looks like it wants to increasingly disengage from its neighbours and other cultures.

  3. #1623
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Maybe the government will be aiming for Te Reo to be given a similar to treatment to Irish in Ireland. I think Irish in Ireland has been promoted without detracting from other education and language-learning goals. At the same time as promoting Erse, Ireland has opened itself socially and has been able to develop its economy and international relationships. In comparison, its neighbour - mono-lingual England - seems to be withdrawing into itself and looks like it wants to increasingly disengage from its neighbours and other cultures.
    Actually - this is a great point. While not a great fan of making it compulsory at school to learn as second language something nobody outside of NZ (and hardly anybody in NZ) can speak ... I agree - it might well open minds.

    As well - speaking from experience - the second language is the hardest to learn ... all languages afterwards come much easier.

    The other argument for Te Reo would be that it is quite related to Malayan / Indonesian / Pacifica languages. At least some of these might be quite useful to learn ... and hey, if a foundation of Te Reo helps with that - why not? Talking with the neighbors is always better than shooting them ;
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  4. #1624
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Its taking Clare a while to sort through all her Gmails. How hard can that be? No doubt doing enough to stay in parliament on a wage rate at more than she is worth. Whats the bet Derek doesnt get the CTO job!
    Even by today Clare hasn't finished "cleansing" her Gmail account. I suspect she has gone through a box or two of redaction pens. I wonder what the email between her and the Prime Minister said? More to come!

  5. #1625
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Even by today Clare hasn't finished "cleansing" her Gmail account. I suspect she has gone through a box or two of redaction pens. I wonder what the email between her and the Prime Minister said? More to come!
    Pretty easy to search for emails between yourself and a particular person or entity on email servers. About 5 seconds typing normally does it.

  6. #1626
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    Pretty easy to search for emails between yourself and a particular person or entity on email servers. About 5 seconds typing normally does it.
    You know that, I know that and anyone with at least half a clue about email would know that. Which makes me wonder why our Prime Minister would think Clare Curran had the competence to fill the Minister of Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media job, let alone be let loose to make a recommendation to decide who the next Chief Technology Officer would be. Clare is likely still trying to figure out where the "delete" key is on her keyboard.

  7. #1627
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Actually - this is a great point. While not a great fan of making it compulsory at school to learn as second language something nobody outside of NZ (and hardly anybody in NZ) can speak ... I agree - it might well open minds....
    Knowledge, acceptance and confidence (as opposed to arrogance) in the attributes of the country and culture in which you are brought up (and live) probably creates positivity, which in turn has consequence in more "useful" "international" aspects in the way you conduct yourself. I imagine that would be especiallly true for Maori, who until about the 1960's were actively discouraged from speaking the Maori language.

  8. #1628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    I imagine that would be especiallly true for Maori, who until about the 1960's were actively discouraged from speaking the Maori language.
    Dont forget it was Maori who actively encouraged to speak English. And then to learn to read and write in English. It suited their agenda at the time. There was nothing to prevent maori from communicating in maori within their own communities, which is no different from the Chinese (who were essentially forced into English language to come to NZ), the dutch, the Germans or the variety of other non-English language communites that continues even to today.

  9. #1629
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Actually - this is a great point. While not a great fan of making it compulsory at school to learn as second language something nobody outside of NZ (and hardly anybody in NZ) can speak ... I agree - it might well open minds.

    As well - speaking from experience - the second language is the hardest to learn ... all languages afterwards come much easier.

    The other argument for Te Reo would be that it is quite related to Malayan / Indonesian / Pacifica languages. At least some of these might be quite useful to learn ... and hey, if a foundation of Te Reo helps with that - why not? Talking with the neighbors is always better than shooting them ;
    Also from experience I agree that after the 2nd language, it becomes easier. So I´d prefer precious language education time for my children was spent on them learning something useful in the World such as (but not limited to) Spanish or Chinese (Mandarin), not Te Reo that is only spoken by a few thousand people in the World, all of which speak English also as a first language.

    As for Ireland teaching Irish with great results, good on them. We could also look at all the Scandinavian countries and most of the continental European countries where young people all learn multiple languages. The result is they have (to quote Bjauck) " opened themselves socially and have been able to develop their economies and international relationships."

    After our kids and grandkids learning a useful language, it should be easy for them to learn Te Reo, if they so choose.

  10. #1630
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Dont forget it was Maori who actively encouraged to speak English.And then to learn to read and write in English. It suited their agenda at the time.
    Like people from China to Sweden learn (as a second language) American English as the lingua franca of international commerce and research?

    There was nothing to prevent maori from communicating in maori within their own communities, which is no different from the Chinese (who were essentially forced into English language to come to NZ), the dutch, the Germans or the variety of other non-English language communites that continues even to today.
    Maori iwi had their own community - Aotearoa-NZ - which became a hostile environment for them to continue to use Te Reo Maori. Unlike the Chinese, Dutch or German families in NZ, they did not have to travel to the other side of the World for this to happen. Unlike the Chinese, Dutch and German speakers there was no other land of their mother tongue.

    Further to the comparison with Irish - Irish people too used to treat Irish with a measure of disdain as a "peasant" language. The reason for this was that the imperial language was English. In order to access education, belong to the professions or to increase your chances of not succumbing to starvation and poverty, you had to learn the language of the rulers. I think that the English (from the time of Eliabeth I onwards) deliberately tried to eradicate Irish so that at one stage a greater percent of Welsh people spoke Cymraeg than Irish who spoke Erse.

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