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  1. #1851
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    Cameron Bagrie on the ball with the madness that is interest free student loans. This Clark/Cullen desperate election bribe is costing us dearly https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12149524

  2. #1852
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Cameron Bagrie on the ball with the madness that is interest free student loans. This Clark/Cullen desperate election bribe is costing us dearly https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12149524
    Not sure it's that easy. Sure - a student benefits from his/her education and should therefore contribute to its cost. However - a country benefits as well from having well educated physicians, teachers, researchers, engineers, lawyers and so on. This means that part of the burden of education should as well be carried by the country.

    Obviously - how much on the country and how much on the individual is a pure political question ... as well as in which form the country contributes. Paying part of the tuition? Paying all of the tuition? Paying the tuition plus maintenance? Paying a percentage of all of above?

    Personally - I did enjoy "free" tertiary education (though not in this country) and I suppose you did that as well (though probably not in this country?). I did study a subject which I could immediately use in the workforce and gave my tuition costs (in form of taxes) back to the society.

    I think this is a fair schema.

    More concerned about the society subsidizing courses which are highly likely to not contribute afterwards to society (because there are not enough relevant jobs). I guess nothing wrong with archeologists, scuba divers, musicians, art historians, psychologists and similar - and if they work in their profession afterwards and pay taxes - good on them. Question is more - is it sensible that society funds many more students in these fields than it is afterwards able of usefully employing? I'd call it madness to subsidize somebody to study something which will send them after completing their degrees on the doll.

    Not too concerned about interest free student loans per se as long as students study something useful and sought after in society. But as indicated before - this is more a question of where you stand in the political spectrum, I would not consider a different view as madness - just different.

    I agree however that we fund too many students to study things the society does not need afterwards. And we don't motivate capable students to study subjects we need. We fund them all irrespective of usefulness of their studies to society. This is dumb.
    Last edited by BlackPeter; 27-10-2018 at 11:10 AM.
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  3. #1853
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    First KiwiBuild families welcomed to new Papakura homes

    We are off.
    The demand is such that those wanting to buy the homes had to have a pre-approved mortgage and then enter a ballot.
    The musician, Dave Dobbyn, sang 'Welcome Home' to the families while neighbours and representatives from local and central government looked on

  4. #1854
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    First KiwiBuild families welcomed to new Papakura homes

    We are off.
    [FONT="]The demand is such that those wanting to buy the homes had to have a pre-approved mortgage and then enter a ballot.[/FONT]
    The musician, Dave Dobbyn, sang 'Welcome Home' to the families while neighbours and representatives from local and central government looked on
    I think they did something similar in former socialist East Germany when people received 10 to 12 years after placing their orders their new car (or washing machine).

    Isn't it great to experience socialism? A small number of lucky punters migh get a subsidized home ... and the rest stays out there in the rain. I am sure this will motivate voters.

    So - they delivered 18 houses - is this right? Where are the other 9,982 houses Labour promised to build more every year?

    https://cdn.thestandard.org.nz/wp-co...eet.pdf?x35462
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  5. #1855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    First KiwiBuild families welcomed to new Papakura homes

    We are off.
    The demand is such that those wanting to buy the homes had to have a pre-approved mortgage and then enter a ballot.
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Which is plainly ridiculous. They should test the market - the ballot is no more than a lottery with nearly every entrant losing. The 'winner' is being given a bonus by the other taxpayers.

  6. #1856
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Not sure it's that easy. Sure - a student benefits from his/her education and should therefore contribute to its cost. However - a country benefits as well from having well educated physicians, teachers, researchers, engineers, lawyers and so on. This means that part of the burden of education should as well be carried by the country.

    Obviously - how much on the country and how much on the individual is a pure political question ... as well as in which form the country contributes. Paying part of the tuition? Paying all of the tuition? Paying the tuition plus maintenance? Paying a percentage of all of above?

    Personally - I did enjoy "free" tertiary education (though not in this country) and I suppose you did that as well (though probably not in this country?). I did study a subject which I could immediately use in the workforce and gave my tuition costs (in form of taxes) back to the society.

    I think this is a fair schema.

    More concerned about the society subsidizing courses which are highly likely to not contribute afterwards to society (because there are not enough relevant jobs). I guess nothing wrong with archeologists, scuba divers, musicians, art historians, psychology and similar - and if they work in their profession afterwards and pay taxes - good on them. Question is more - is it sensible that society funds many more students in these fields than it is afterwards able of usefully employing? I'd call it madness to subsidize somebody to study something which will send them after completing their degrees on the doll.

    Not too concerned about interest free student loans per se as long as students study something useful and sought after in society. But as indicated before - this is more a question of where you stand in the political spectrum, I would not consider a different view as madness - just different.

    I agree however that we fund too many students to study things the society does not need afterwards. And we don't motivate capable students to study subjects we need. We fund them all irrespective of usefulness of their studies to society. This is dumb.
    The problem with this policy is that is not at all targeted and over 50% of borrowers move overseas after their education with no intention of repaying the loan. It is very costly for the country and in my view, the money should be put to much better use.

    You're right about my education, same situation as yours. We were very lucky.

  7. #1857
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    The problem with this policy is that is not at all targeted and over 50% of borrowers move overseas after their education with no intention of repaying the loan. It is very costly for the country and in my view, the money should be put to much better use.
    I guess the issue with people moving overseas would be easy to fix ... just introduce a bond for people asking for a interest free student loan and require them to work for a certain number of years within NZ or pay a penalty (like repaying the forgone interest).

    On the other hand - NZ did benefit from my education and didn't pay for it (I worked in my job here for 2 decades or so) and same with the education of say in average 20k other highly qualified immigrants per year who bring their degrees to NZ without NZ having to pay for it.

    Why should we not give as well something back to the other countries who educated the immigrants?

    The trick would be to make life in NZ more desirable for the right people so that we have a net gain of well educated people (actually - I think we have that anyway) - though admittedly - the current government does whatever they can to get rid of well educated foreigners (applying populist sentiments and policies), but as well getting rid of well educated Kiwis (just watch the falling net immigration numbers - this is immigrants minus emigrants).
    Last edited by BlackPeter; 27-10-2018 at 12:16 PM.
    ----
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  8. #1858
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    I think they did something similar in former socialist East Germany when people received 10 to 12 years after placing their orders their new car (or washing machine).

    Isn't it great to experience socialism? A small number of lucky punters migh get a subsidized home ... and the rest stays out there in the rain. I am sure this will motivate voters.

    So - they delivered 18 houses - is this right? Where are the other 9,982 houses Labour promised to build more every year?

    https://cdn.thestandard.org.nz/wp-co...eet.pdf?x35462
    Just the beginning my friend. Momentum will build from here.

    Read the interview in todays herald "Builder feels right at home"
    It states " an ex state house kid is now working with HNZ on a 10 year $30 billion plan to deliver more than 30,000 houses across auckland.Chris Aiken heads the business chosen to manage one of Australsias biggest urban regeneration projects working with HNZC to transform homes on about 1000 ha of state owned auckland land.
    The right man for this job.

  9. #1859
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    Kiwbuild bound to become a "train wreck" according to someone with experience in the field https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/10/2...ity-trainwreck

    Maybe our Government should look at the very poor results of the community projects in QLD but I suspect they won't do that !
    Last edited by iceman; 28-10-2018 at 12:18 PM.

  10. #1860
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    Don’t think Jacinda would givevthis Guy much credence

    Have we overestimated the relationship between income and financial well-being?
    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpo...al-well-being/
    “ At the top of every bubble, everyone is convinced it's not yet a bubble.”

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