Labour / NZ First Government

[BlackPeter]

NZ’s chronic productivity stagnation issue - isn’t it in part caused by the fact that Kiwis have found better after tax returns by investing in expensive residential land rather than productive business.

Perhaps if we encouraged and increased the proportion of capital invested in industry and business then production per employee may increase?

You mean a capital gains tax (on everything else than the family home) might be counter productive? I agree!

[westerly]

NZ’s chronic productivity stagnation issue - isn’t it in part caused by the fact that Kiwis have found better after tax returns by investing in expensive residential land rather than productive business.

Perhaps if we encouraged and increased the proportion of capital invested in industry and business then production per employee may increase?

Wikipedia lists around 14 measurements of GDP by country. How do you measure the productivity of a policeman. Number of arrests? A lawyer, number of court cases won ? A teacher, class size? (teachers striking wanting reduced class sizes). A decrease in productivity?
Seems to me as with all statistics you can prove whatever you want to.

westerly

[Bjauck]

In the absence of other reforms, I agree that a CGT that exluded the family home could be counter-productive.

In the absence of a comprehensive CGT, introducing a "fair income" method for calculating returns on investor residential land (along the lines of the FDR) could help even the burden of taxation with investment in productive companies and businesses.

[minimoke]

Wikipedia lists around 14 measurements of GDP by country. How do you measure the productivity of a policeman. Number of arrests? A lawyer, number of court cases won ? A teacher, class size? (teachers striking wanting reduced class sizes). A decrease in productivity?
Seems to me as with all statistics you can prove whatever you want to.

westerly

Measuring productivity is not an easy exercise. But tat shouldn't put off an attempt to do so. It can be done - it just needs agreement. So for teachers, for example, it might be the number of pupils who show they can apply learning at different stages. For example can a year one kid pick up five oranges - though obvious you need a base line of anility. No good if kid can already count to five and knows teh difference between and apple and an orange.

You wont have one measure. You might have up to five - they will be important things. Maybe - delivery of course on time, course delivered according to curriculum, , no of students engaged in learning etc

[artemis]

Teachers are saying they have a huge amount of paperwork to do these days. One of the reasons they should be paid more.

Some, even most, of that paperwork must relate to measurement of student achievement. There's a potential set of teacher productivity measures right there.

[minimoke]

Teachers are saying they have a huge amount of paperwork to do these days. One of the reasons they should be paid more.

Some, even most, of that paperwork must relate to measurement of student achievement. There's a potential set of teacher productivity measures right there.

Thats a nonsense. Marking papers should be relatively easy. A darn sight easier than the actual teaching / curriculum management. They should get paid less if they are marking papers. ("marking" sounds like an input measurement - productivity should be based on output)

(what should really happen is letting teachers teach, and then pass marking to someone else.)

[Bjauck]

Thats a nonsense. Marking papers should be relatively easy. A darn sight easier than the actual teaching / curriculum management. They should get paid less if they are marking papers. ("marking" sounds like an input measurement - productivity should be based on output)

(what should really happen is letting teachers teach, and then pass marking to someone else.)

I disagree.

If all papers were based on 100% multiple choice questions, then marking would be easy. However in other cases maintaining consistency of marking standards across all markers is difficult and involves substantial training. That is in addition to the markers having expertise in the subject matter.

Marking is productive as it assesses expertise in the field concerned. Deficient marking could enable qualifications to be bestowed on those with deficient knowledge/expertise. That could have a negative effect on productivity.

[minimoke]

I disagree.

If all papers were based on 100% multiple choice questions, then marking would be easy. However in other cases maintaining consistency of marking standards across all markers is difficult and involves substantial training. That is in addition to the markers having expertise in the subject matter.

Marking is productive as it assesses expertise in the field concerned. Deficient marking could enable qualifications to be bestowed on those with deficient knowledge/expertise. That could have a negative effect on productivity.

The productive part is having an "expert" student coming out of the system. The exam marker essentially needs one skill - subject matter expertise. Where as the Teacher needs lots of skills like classroom / study preparation, course delivery and student management. Got to be worth more than a Marker - who only needs expertise in the questions being asked, Not even the whole course.

[artemis]

The productive part is having an "expert" student coming out of the system. The exam marker essentially needs one skill - subject matter expertise. Where as the Teacher needs lots of skills like classroom / study preparation, course delivery and student management. Got to be worth more than a Marker - who only needs expertise in the questions being asked, Not even the whole course.

Having markers sounds like a good idea. Has anyone ever suggested it? I'm not a teacher but could quickly pick up a preset marking regime in areas I am proficient in. Most papers would be straightforward to mark, the few that are tricky could go back to the teacher.

Sounds like a grand job for retired teachers, parents with children at home, or other professionals. Papers couriered in and out, work from home at their own pace, easier than being a relief teacher.

[minimoke]

Having markers sounds like a good idea. Has anyone ever suggested it? I'm not a teacher but could quickly pick up a preset marking regime in areas I am proficient in.

Seems like a basic idea to me. Even I could mark papers and free up primary school teachers from a load of assessments. Figure out a decent hourly rate and pay on a piece basis- that would be productive.