Labour / NZ First Government

[Joshuatree]

Interesting , it was brought up again today the religious beliefs hiding behind the anti abortion lobby, its there alright just like it was hiding in the background pushing hard in the anti euthanasia lobby, very disappointing and all it does push people away from religions.

[jonu]

Out of interest Jonu, are you vegan?

No I'm not, but then again I don't eat human beings either, if you are taking a rather circuitous route to a clear conscience and taking lives type proposition.

[jonu]

Interesting , it was brought up again today the religious beliefs hiding behind the anti abortion lobby, its there alright just like it was hiding in the background pushing hard in the anti euthanasia lobby, very disappointing and all it does push people away from religions.

Still no answers to hard questions JT? Just more attacks on religion which was certainly never raised by me.

Do you accept that abortion after 6 weeks gestation stops a beating heart? Most doctors don't want to have anything to do with abortion. They understand, more than most, exactly what is involved and the lengths to which abortionists will go to extinguish the life of a human being. Cutting up in utero, crushing the head so it can be sucked out and other horrific acts. Unpalatable to hear and think about, which sadly is why most people willfully turn a blind eye and say it's a woman's choice. A woman's choice whose mental wellbeing is supposedly at risk. How is that responsible?

[tga_trader]

No I was just thinking about your post the other day...

Abortion stops a beating heart.

...and wondering, for someone like yourself so dead set against abortion, is it the killing of any living thing (stopping a beating heart), or do you set an intelligence distinction, or....?

FWIW I think there is definitely a need for availability of abortions for very specific instances, but I don't think they should be freely available for no reason. I haven't actually looked at the details of the bill to see exactly what they're proposing.

Do you hold the same position on euthanasia? ie take no lives.

[Joshuatree]

There will always be difficult , heart wrenching exceptions but the vast majority are not. And i believe its the womans right to choose. It sounds like you have personal story to tell and if so i can understand your depth of feeling here.

[jonu]

No I was just thinking about your post the other day...

...and wondering, for someone like yourself so dead set against abortion, is it the killing of any living thing (stopping a beating heart), or do you set an intelligence distinction, or....?

FWIW I think there is definitely a need for availability of abortions for very specific instances, but I don't think they should be freely available for no reason. I haven't actually looked at the details of the bill to see exactly what they're proposing.

Do you hold the same position on euthanasia? ie take no lives.

As a species we have long set a distinction between human life and others. This isn't exactly new.

As for Euthanasia...The arguments are different, but yes I am against it. The major difference is of course with Euthanasia the recipient presumably requests it without coercion. I don't think too many babies put their hand up to be aborted.

[jonu]

There will always be difficult , heart wrenching exceptions but the vast majority are not. And i believe its the womans right to choose. It sounds like you have personal story to tell and if so i can understand your depth of feeling here.

No personal story, just a deep respect for human life. And still no answers from yourself on hard questions.

[Joshuatree]

Then there is the new movement, folks choosing to have few or no children due to global warming.Thats such a gift and a sacrifice!
And the folks who desperately want children and go to fertility clinics(disclose im invested in one), an up cycle happening there i think.
And the folks that will choose to adopt children, is there awaiting list? Throw these in and its a complex situ alright.

[jonu]

As a species we have long set a distinction between human life and others. This isn't exactly new.

As for Euthanasia...The arguments are different, but yes I am against it. The major difference is of course with Euthanasia the recipient presumably requests it without coercion. I don't think too many babies put their hand up to be aborted.

Another thought on comparison to Euthanasia. How many people would support it if the decision was made by the caregiver and not the recipient? That is the case in every abortion.

[jonu]

Then there is the new movement, folks choosing to have few or no children due to global warming.Thats such a gift and a sacrifice!
And the folks who desperately want children and go to fertility clinics(disclose im invested in one), an up cycle happening there i think.
And the folks that will choose to adopt children, is there awaiting list? Throw these in and its a complex situ alright.

And still no answer to hard questions