Labour / NZ First Government

[Joshuatree]

Shamelessly giving us a chance to eliminate covid and get back to some form of normal but after seeing lines of braindead people queueing close together at fast food centres in some sort of risk on justification beggars belief.

[jonu]

Shamelessly giving us a chance to eliminate covid and get back to some form of normal but after seeing lines of braindead people queueing close together at fast food centres in some sort of risk on justification beggars belief.

Would you care to write something that makes sense JT...or have you been in the fastfood queue as well?

[macduffy]

The fact that literally nothing is clear about this virus yet, is all the more reason for the government to take an extreme stance. We are slowly building a picture of this virus, but the reality is, it will be months, if not years, before we know exactly how it operates and how/if, it can be successfully treated or vaccinated against. It is a pandemic. That’s a fact. How can you possibly expect any government to automatically know how to deal with it? Our government has taken their responsibility seriously. They have made a decision to err on the side of caution and it has paid off. The cynics amongst you of course, will claim that we would have ended up where we are now without such stringent measures. But that is BS. None of you know that. Nobody does. You can compare us with other countries as much as you like to back your argument, but there are way too many variables for that argument to hold any water. Climate/weather, pollution, population density, standard of living, food/nutrition/diet, water quality, health/exercise and all other aspects of life in any particular country, may all influence the way this virus behaves or effects the population. Nobody has a rule book. Nobody has a crystal ball. Not you, not me, not even the medical researchers/scientists. At some point down the track, they might. But until then, I for one am very satisfied with the way our government has managed this, for us. There is literally no place I would rather be living right now. And no, there are no guarantees that life will ever return to normal. There are no guarantees in life. There never have been and there never will be. It will be what it will be.

Thanks for bringing some sense to this thread, justakiwi!

[justakiwi]

I disagree. Yes, there have been inconveniences and yes, there has been an effect on businesses and the economy. But it has been for a very short period of time in the grand scheme of things. In two weeks we will probably be down to Level 2, which will be pretty close to “normal” life again. I can’t speak for public surgeries, but elective surgery has resumed at at least one private hospital - my daughter is back in theatre this week. Everything at her hospital is now back to normal. All of us have missed out on contact with loved ones but we will pick up where we left off. We should be grateful for the technology we have at our disposal as it has allowed us to keep in touch with our families and friends. Our rest home residents have enjoyed catching up with family/friends via Zoom, phone calls and video links via Messenger on their phones etc. They have even been able to see and talk (yell!) to visitors outside the building from a “safe” area set up with barriers to ensure a safe physical distance between people. And guess what? None of them are complaining. Not about the lockdown. Not about being isolated. Not about being restricted. Not about the government. Because most of them have lived through tough times in the past and they understand that these restrictions are to protect us all. Yes, no doubt people dealing with mental health issues, may well be struggling right now, but my guess is they would prefer that for a short time, than they would a stay in the covoid19 ward.

Nothing in life is perfect. It just isn’t. Yet you and others seem to think perfection exists. If you are so disappointed with the way NZ has handled this, maybe you should go live in Trumpland. Then you would have something real to complain about.

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That is where we disagree. I do not think they have erred on the side of caution at all. By going for such a hard lock down they have caused thousands of kiwi's to lose their jobs, people missing surgeries, people becoming poorer with adverse health outcomes, quite possible a lower life expectancy to come with lower quality of life. People in despair, people missing out on contacts that are so important for mental health as well as other health. This government have gone for the high risk approach to eliminate or eradicate, or whatever the flavor of the day seems to be, a virus that quite likely will be with us regardless.

[Balance]

Shamelessly giving us a chance to eliminate covid and get back to some form of normal but after seeing lines of braindead people queueing close together at fast food centres in some sort of risk on justification beggars belief.

It is about enforcement and it’s been kid’s glove stiff over here vs Australia.

Proof? David ‘My Values are Labour’s Values’ Clark.

[jonu]

I disagree. Yes, there have been inconveniences and yes, there has been an effect on businesses and the economy. But it has been for a very short period of time in the grand scheme of things. In two weeks we will probably be down to Level 2, which will be pretty close to “normal” life again. I can’t speak for public surgeries, but elective surgery has resumed at at least one private hospital - my daughter is back in theatre this week. Everything at her hospital is now back to normal. All of us have missed out on contact with loved ones but we will pick up where we left off. We should be grateful for the technology we have at our disposal as it has allowed us to keep in touch with our families and friends. Our rest home residents have enjoyed catching up with family/friends via Zoom, phone calls and video links via Messenger on their phones etc. They have even been able to see and talk (yell!) to visitors outside the building from a “safe” area set up with barriers to ensure a safe physical distance between people. Yes, no doubt people dealing with mental health issues, may well be struggling right now, but my guess is they would prefer that for a short time, than they would a stay in the covoid19 ward.

Nothing in life is perfect. It just isn’t. Yet you and others seem to think perfection exists. If you are so disappointed with the way NZ has handled this, maybe you should go live in Trumpland. Then you would have something real to complain about.

Telling someone to go live somewhere else when their own place has been turned on its head without their consent is a little extreme...I think anyway.

The one word of your post in BOLD is important.

The REAL consequences will be seen in the dole queue, the insolvencies, the mortgagee sales, the drug use, the health statistics, the suicides.

[justakiwi]

That is one seriously huge generalisation, which you are using as propaganda to serve your own agenda. The government has always supported the unemployed and that will not change. Yes, no doubt some people who find themselves unemployed now, will experience depression and/or anxiety. That is a normal reaction to a sudden change in one’s circumstances. Those with current mental health issues may find those are compounded right now, but they will be supported. The vast majority of people who now find themselves unemployed will not fall into a pit of depression and will not contemplate or commit suicide. With support from the government, social assistance, support from NGO and charitable agencies, support from family and friends - they will get through it. Maybe you could channel your anger into helping someone in that situation in some way? Volunteer to make daily calls to people, to mentor them in something you have skills in. Donate some of your investment income to agencies supporting people. Do something meaningful and proactive to help somebody else. One thing I can tell you for sure - you will get more joy, more satisfaction and more happiness out of focusing on others, than you will ever get from trying to win your arguments here. It is so easy to sit at home ranting and raving, day after day. All that has done is make you bitter. It is also not good for your health. None of your protestations have achieved anything. Nothing. Neither have mine, but at least I get out every day and focus on serving other human beings. Which is far, far more beneficial.

Unemployment -> Depression -> Health & Social Problems -> Deaths

[jonu]

That is one seriously huge generalisation, which you are using as propaganda to serve your own agenda. The government has always supported the unemployed and that will not change. Yes, no doubt some people who find themselves unemployed now, will experience depression and/or anxiety. That is a normal reaction to a sudden change in one’s circumstances. Those with current mental health issues may find those are compounded right now, but they will be supported. The vast majority of people who now find themselves unemployed will not fall into a pit of depression and will not contemplate or commit suicide. With support from the government, social assistance, support from NGO and charitable agencies, support from family and friends - they will get through it. Maybe you could channel your anger into helping someone in that situation in some way? Volunteer to make daily calls to people, to mentor them in something you have skills in. Donate some of your investment income to agencies supporting people. Do something meaningful and proactive to help somebody else. One thing I can tell you for sure - you will get more joy, more satisfaction and more happiness out of focusing on others, than you will ever get from trying to win your arguments here. It is so easy to sit at home ranting and raving, day after day. All that has done is make you bitter. It is also not good for your health. None of your protestations have achieved anything. Nothing. Neither have mine, but at least I get out every day and focus on serving other human beings. Which is far, far more beneficial.

So....you're right...he's wrong, and he should just shut up and suck it up and start to help clean up the mess. How convenient.

[blackcap]

. None of your protestations have achieved anything. Nothing. Neither have mine, but at least I get out every day and focus on serving other human beings. Which is far, far more beneficial.

There has been some research done on this topic. For every 1% increase in unemployment costs about 500 lives in a NZ context if we extrapolate the data from the US (pop 330m, NZ pop 5m). So yes increase in unemployment has a huge cost and that is forgetting the flow on effects to the rest of society as well...

You seem rather naive or arrogant as well. You "protest" on here and say that you at least get out every day etc etc. How do you know that Jonu, or anyone else for that matter does not do exactly the same? (btw your work does not count because you do that for remuneration) I am talking about the extra things we do to help others. You cannot judge someone by the arguments they posit on a share trading site.

[Balance]

So....you're right...he's wrong, and he should just shut up and suck it up and start to help clean up the mess. How convenient.

Justakiwi means well but I sincerely believe she is so besotted with Cindy she cannot accept Saint Cindy can do any wrong.

Question left unanswered - What is the flow in effect of the ‘strictest lockdown in the world’ on incremental unemployment & the effects in social & health problems?

Will only require another $5m from this government’s unlimited budgets for studies & reports into all manner of things.

But don’t expect this government to commission such a report - because it will show this lockdown on the negative side.

Sad.