Labour / NZ First Government

[fungus pudding]

Who made the estimate?

westerly

Nobody. There are various estimates from qualified sources as you well know. Of course it is impossible to verify any estimates.
Here is one from a knowledgeable source for example that suggest $1 billion. That's at the low end of the various estimates (ignoring those that can be considered to be little more than a guess).

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12045113

[artemis]

Who made the estimate?
Westerly

Various estimates, various sources. The IMF reckoned a few years back the other economy is about 12% of NZ GDP. The $1billion mentioned by FP is one estimate of tax lost to the system not the size of the shadow economy. Other estimates are in the order of $7billion lost tax.

Regardless there is a large amount of tax not paid, a good reason to reduce income tax and increase consumption tax.

[fungus pudding]

Various estimates, various sources. The IMF reckoned a few years back the other economy is about 12% of NZ GDP. The $1billion mentioned by FP is one estimate of tax lost to the system not the size of the shadow economy. Other estimates are in the order of $7billion lost tax.

Regardless there is a large amount of tax not paid, a good reason to reduce income tax and increase consumption tax.

I agree with that bit. 'Never punish a man for earning - better to clobber him for spending.' A Fungus maxim.

[westerly]

Nobody. There are various estimates from qualified sources as you well know. Of course it is impossible to verify any estimates.
Here is one from a knowledgeable source for example that suggest $1 billion. That's at the low end of the various estimates (ignoring those that can be considered to be little more than a guess).

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12045113

As a cynic I would suggest maybe the accountants were first looking to increase their business, but I could be wrong.
Anyway the post I was querying seem to imply that beneficiarys were responsible for the tax losses of the grey economy. Again I could be wrong but as a cynic I will still regard any opinion expressed by a economist working for a bank, a real estate agent or anyone else lobbying for their own interests as worthy of scrutiny.

westerly

[artemis]

As a cynic I would suggest maybe the accountants were first looking to increase their business, but I could be wrong.
Anyway the post I was querying seem to imply that beneficiarys were responsible for the tax losses of the grey economy. Again I could be wrong but as a cynic I will still regard any opinion expressed by a economist working for a bank, a real estate agent or anyone else lobbying for their own interests as worthy of scrutiny.

westerly

A lot of cashies happen, legal and definitely not. Mostly small fry I would think, but some not small. Common enough among beneficiaries in my experience, simply because they have low income and spare time. If as expected there is a large increase in Jobseeker beneficiaries, it would not be at all surprising if some undertook cash work to pay some of the bills and eat. Tax revenue lost due to lost job and also under the table work.

[BlackPeter]

As to child abuse/domestic violence - there is a solution and it is to lock away those who perpetuate such dastardly deeds against vulnerable children & women, instead of the law protecting the perpetuators. And let's not get into the BS debate about rehabilitation etc etc of those bad eggs - they are beyond redemption. Too many lily-hearted judges and welfare workers in NZ.

When did you move into the Trump camp? Lock them up and throw the key away ... sounds like a pretty stupid strategy which doesn't work anywhere in the world. Trump land has one of the highest murder rates in the civilized world despite locking up (or even killing) offenders as well as wrongly accused innocent people for longer than anybody else. Locking up more people does not fix their murder rate, it makes it worse.

You want to turn NZ into a mini Trump land? No - thanks. Enough idiot nations around, we don't need to be as dumb as they are.

Child abuse is a complex problem and driven by issues like poverty, substance abuse, by abusers having been previously the victim as child him/herself, by mental illness but as well by our legislation implementing brain dead so called progressive ideas (anti slapping bill) basically forbidding any disciplining of children. I guess at some stage some of the suffering parents are just exploding.

Simple solutions like lock the offenders up don't work, I am afraid. Sorry to learn you turned a populist.

[fungus pudding]

A lot of cashies happen, legal and definitely not. Mostly small fry I would think, but some not small. Common enough among beneficiaries in my experience, simply because they have low income and spare time. If as expected there is a large increase in Jobseeker beneficiaries, it would not be at all surprising if some undertook cash work to pay some of the bills and eat. Tax revenue lost due to lost job and also under the table work.

The term 'cashies' is so misleading for what it implies, it's best not used. There is nothing wrong with paying bills in cash, or with accepting payment in cash.

[jonu]

When did you move into the Trump camp? Lock them up and throw the key away ... sounds like a pretty stupid strategy which doesn't work anywhere in the world. Trump land has one of the highest murder rates in the civilized world despite locking up (or even killing) offenders as well as wrongly accused innocent people for longer than anybody else. Locking up more people does not fix their murder rate, it makes it worse.

You want to turn NZ into a mini Trump land? No - thanks. Enough idiot nations around, we don't need to be as dumb as they are.

Child abuse is a complex problem and driven by issues like poverty, substance abuse, by abusers having been previously the victim as child him/herself, by mental illness but as well by our legislation implementing brain dead so called progressive ideas (anti slapping bill) basically forbidding any disciplining of children. I guess at some stage some of the suffering parents are just exploding.

Simple solutions like lock the offenders up don't work, I am afraid. Sorry to learn you turned a populist.

Everything is about Trump with you BP. You are fixated with him. The US had a high level of incarceration long before Trump came along. Remember how Obama was going to close Guantanamo?

[artemis]

The term 'cashies' is so misleading for what it implies, it's best not used. There is nothing wrong with paying bills in cash, or with accepting payment in cash.

IRD uses the term, and its meaning is widely understood. Agree nothing wrong with paying or receiving cash.

[fungus pudding]

IRD uses the term, and its meaning is widely understood. Agree nothing wrong with paying or receiving cash.

It's meaning is actually widely misunderstood. Obviously you use it, but I never would. I avoid anything ambiguous.