Labour / NZ First Government

[moka]

The key word these days, here and around the western world, is equality. And that generally means equality of outcomes, because equality of opportunity is already widespread.

They are very different.

Let's remember the old saying, still relevant - the harder I work, the luckier I get.

I disagree equality of opportunity is not already widespread, far from it. Discrimination based on race, sex, class, religion, and even appearance is still very common. People often hire people like themselves.
The Black Lives Matter movement is also about equal opportunity because institutional racism built in to so many of our structures.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/11/how-black-lives-matter-movement-can-avoid-metoos-missteps.html

A new study finds that good looking kids do better in school than their less striking peers.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12281972&ref=art_readm ore

There will never be equality of outcomes because some people are going to be more successful than others due to their intelligence, skills, ambition, talents e.g. singers. Not everyone has the ability to succeed at being a singer, and some people do not have the desire or drive to get to the top.
The harder I work, the luckier I get- not always true, your chances of success are greatly increased if you have successful parents. Who your parents are is a matter of luck.

[tim23]

I disagree equality of opportunity is not already widespread, far from it. Discrimination based on race, sex, class, religion, and even appearance is still very common. People often hire people like themselves.
The Black Lives Matter movement is also about equal opportunity because institutional racism built in to so many of our structures.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/11/how-black-lives-matter-movement-can-avoid-metoos-missteps.html

A new study finds that good looking kids do better in school than their less striking peers.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12281972&ref=art_readm ore

There will never be equality of outcomes because some people are going to be more successful than others due to their intelligence, skills, ambition, talents e.g. singers. Not everyone has the ability to succeed at being a singer, and some people do not have the desire or drive to get to the top.
The harder I work, the luckier I get- not always true, your chances of success are greatly increased if you have successful parents. Who your parents are is a matter of luck.

Quite right - the luck of your upbringing is a huge factor ignored by the average National voter in my experience, I know most of my mates vote for them!

[moka]

Where in NZ is that happening Panda? You started off spouting about a eco lefty Australian terrorist by the name of Tarrant. Tarrant was no way a right wing extremist. I have read his manifesto when overseas. He is not of the far right. Far from it. But that is the way he has been portrayed by our media.
But to the point, what has the US got to do with NZ? We do not have guns brought to intimidate lawmakers. Cancel culture is a dirty cultural marxist ploy by other using the useful idiot woke to further their agenda. But they will eat their own as they are already starting to do.

I disagree with that Tarrant was a lefty, he was right wing by his own admission.
Tarrant describes himself as a ethno-nationalist and a fascist in the manifesto.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/03/15/new-zealand-christchurch-mosque-shootings-who-brenton-tarrant/3172550002

One of the most common features of right-wing populist and fascist movements is the demand for ethnic and/or racial purity. What are ethno-nationalist regimes? They are political systems that quite openly privilege the alleged rights of a given ethnic or so-called racial group
https://www.charlestonchronicle.net/2019/12/30/the-danger-of-the-ethno-nationalist-state/

Political scientists and other analysts regard the right as including conservatives, right-libertarians,[23] neoconservatives, imperialists, monarchists,[24] fascists,[25] reactionaries and traditionalists.
What is the difference between left wing and right wing?
Generally, the left-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism" while the right-wing is characterized by an emphasis on "notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_political_spectrum

[moka]

https://www.interest.co.nz/currencie...-listen-engage

When a government is breeding social welfare beneficiaries to bolster its voter base and ignoring the real job & wealth creators, there is only one way for the NZ economy (and hence, society) to go. And it's not up.

The initiatives Roger Kerr lists would create some growth, but not enough additional growth to take us past the norm. He does not say what policy changes he wants. Business people can initiate most of those opportunities already, however free trade falls in the government’s court.

Roger J Kerr says the current government, from the evidence so far, is not prepared to listen, engage with and work with business to create the legislative/regulatory environment required.
We have a two-month hole to replace and that requires additional economic growth/activity in the future to the past norm.
Entrepreneurial business folk have been promoting such initiatives as software/technology hubs, free trade zones, pharmaceutical research/drug trialling clusters, specialist education centres, global sporting events and movie industry opportunities.
If the Government was to embrace the new initiatives and allow business to participate in the policy design with them we could have a chance at achieving the additional economic growth we need. The Government needs to create the policy environment so business risk takers can get on with what they do best.

[Panda-NZ-]

The initiatives Roger Kerr lists would create some growth, but not enough additional growth to take us past the norm. He does not say what policy changes he wants. Business people can initiate most of those opportunities already, however free trade falls in the government’s court.

Roger J Kerr says the current government, from the evidence so far, is not prepared to listen, engage with and work with business to create the legislative/regulatory environment required.
We have a two-month hole to replace and that requires additional economic growth/activity in the future to the past norm.
Entrepreneurial business folk have been promoting such initiatives as software/technology hubs, free trade zones, pharmaceutical research/drug trialling clusters, specialist education centres, global sporting events and movie industry opportunities.
If the Government was to embrace the new initiatives and allow business to participate in the policy design with them we could have a chance at achieving the additional economic growth we need. The Government needs to create the policy environment so business risk takers can get on with what they do best.

It really is as simple as setting up a company (easy peasy) and coming up with an idea to sell to "customers" either here or overseas. What is needed is more awareness on things like how to become a contractor, pay yourself a salary through a company or use things like "service agreements" and thankfully we have a good communicator to do that.

[Joshuatree]

Can we afford their mistakes?

Like driving to the beach mmmh yep, wont do that again. UK minister didnt even acknowledge his 400 mile error let alone apologise.
Kiwibuild yep great aspiration but unacheivable, good on you canning it when you did.Change in RMA may help.

[Panda-NZ-]

Like driving to the beach mmmh yep, wont do that again. UK minister didnt even acknowledge his 400 mile error let alone apologise.
Kiwibuild yep great aspiration but unacheivable, good on you canning it when you did.Change in RMA may help.

The labour force didn't have enough people so its good it was winded down until the training of local apprentices can take place. There were some strange things going on in construction with even businesses like Fletcher making wierd decisions.

[artemis]

Quite right - the luck of your upbringing is a huge factor ignored by the average National voter in my experience, I know most of my mates vote for them!

Agree that parenting is key, but ask yourself why some households do better than others. Education is universal here. Healthcare is free for children and free or cheap for many others. Basic income or more from welfare or work is available. Contraception knowledge is universal. There are massive and expensive social support services. With all this and more how many parents have no idea how to look after their children and support them to thrive?

[iceman]

Agree that parenting is key, but ask yourself why some households do better than others. Education is universal here. Healthcare is free for children and free or cheap for many others. Basic income or more from welfare or work is available. Contraception knowledge is universal. There are massive and expensive social support services. With all this and more how many parents have no idea how to look after their children and support them to thrive?

A pretty good list there artemis but I have no doubt the apologists for lackluster parenting will come up with a whole lot more reasons to excuse it.

[blackcap]

About our dear frowny face Cindy... .saw this nice little gem.

When she gets the tough questions she invariably frowns, presumably so that we can read between the lines on her forehead.