Labour / NZ First Government

[iceman]

I presume not. This is however exactly the sort of decision that requires have strong cross party support. Very disappointing.

It should not be a problem for the Government to reach across the aisle and find an agreeable policy that National could support. Not so sure on what they are proposing though, seems at first read to be full of holes and ill defined exemptions, as so often happens when legislation is fast tracked through Parliament without proper debate and scrutiny.

[Balance]

Wheels fell off the coalition wagon a while ago - they could only cover up the cracks for so long.

[moka]

Tens of thousands of jobs are going begging in the agricultural sector and NZ employed over 200,000 short term workers to fill jobs.

Not everyone wants to work in the agricultural sector or is suitable for the work e.g. older workers. And often the work means moving to another area for fruit-picking etc. Do the sums and this is often not practical for short term work when you are renting or paying a mortgage. You can’t pay your mortgage or rent and also pay accommodation costs where you are working. It gets more complicated if you have children at school. Changing schools is very disruptive for children's education.

[moka]

I understand your position. I am not saying that people should uproot and go to Nelson to pick fruit. That is insane. But if you are turning down dairy farm work because its too hard or beneath you, or get sacked because you are not reliable.... well sorry, no benefit for you. We have too many people in manual non-skilled labour that we import from the likes of the Phillipines etc. It is not good enough.

Not everyone wants to work on a dairy farm or is suitable, and an unwilling farm worker requires a lot of effort from the employer. It is not worth him wasting his time on someone who doesn’t want to be there. A good farm worker is actually a highly skilled person. A farm is different from the factory floor or the office. Working with animals is best done by someone who likes animals and treats them well. Getting up at 5am or earlier, milking cows, living in the country doesn’t appeal to everyone.

well sorry, no benefit for you…. So does the person starve if they get no benefit, or do they turn to crime? Paying a benefit is cheaper than the costs to society through the health, justice and also the economic system of not paying a benefit.
Do you like being forced to do something you don’t want to do? Why do you think it is okay to do to that to other people, such as beneficiaries? Treat others as you would like to be treated.

[moka]

For those in the workforce with dependants, low wages for low skilled jobs are a disincentive to work. Although there are a couple of taxpayer transfers based on income, family size and location (eg Accommodation Supplement) for the most part wages don't increase along with family size.

About 6000 babies are born into benefit dependent households each year, with another 3-4000 in such a household before they are 12 months old. Benefit goes up.

Why work?

The previous government introduced a policy that parent/s of those 6000 babies must be work ready when they are a year old, provided the next youngest is school age. The idea was to put these parents on the same footing as those that get off the sofa and go to work every day. Policy well and truly ditched now, and quite possible it didn't work very well anyway.

The UK has a 2 child max policy for some child benefits. More parents entered the workforce.

Why work?
If you are a parent of a baby or young child you do work. They are a lot of work. And if you are a single parent it is a 24/7 job. It is not paid work but it definitely is work and child care centres expect to be paid to do it.
What a strange world when unpaid work is not considered work, and raising children is not considered work. Is it any wonder there is a breakdown of the family when raising children is not valued?

[Balance]

Why work?
If you are a parent of a baby or young child you do work. They are a lot of work. And if you are a single parent it is a 24/7 job. It is not paid work but it definitely is work and child care centres expect to be paid to do it.
What a strange world when unpaid work is not considered work, and raising children is not considered work. Is it any wonder there is a breakdown of the family when raising children is not valued?

Nobody disputes that looking after a child and bringing up a family is hard work - probably the most intense.

But when did society move from that to saying that all parents should be paid for having children?

[blackcap]

Not everyone wants to work on a dairy farm or is suitable, and an unwilling farm worker requires a lot of effort from the employer. It is not worth him wasting his time on someone who doesn’t want to be there. A good farm worker is actually a highly skilled person. A farm is different from the factory floor or the office. Working with animals is best done by someone who likes animals and treats them well. Getting up at 5am or earlier, milking cows, living in the country doesn’t appeal to everyone.

well sorry, no benefit for you…. So does the person starve if they get no benefit, or do they turn to crime? Paying a benefit is cheaper than the costs to society through the health, justice and also the economic system of not paying a benefit.
Do you like being forced to do something you don’t want to do? Why do you think it is okay to do to that to other people, such as beneficiaries? Treat others as you would like to be treated.

Its all about mindset. Everyone can work on a farm if they want to. You do not need to like animals to work on a farm. I have worked on a farm and am not what you would call an animal lover (I do like animals but no more than anyone else). Getting up at 5am is not that difficult either with a bit of discipline.
If you really want to work and provide for your family that is a small sacrifice to pay. If someone does not want to do that, then sorry, no benefit. I am not forcing anyone to do anything by the way. They force it on themselves. There are other places where they can work too. Unfortunately the last 30 years or so we have cultivated an entitlement culture where people have become dependent on the state and are loath to look after themselves and their responsibilities. Your comments are full of entitlement.

[Balance]

Its all about mindset. Everyone can work on a farm if they want to. You do not need to like animals to work on a farm. I have worked on a farm and am not what you would call an animal lover (I do like animals but no more than anyone else). Getting up at 5am is not that difficult either with a bit of discipline.
If you really want to work and provide for your family that is a small sacrifice to pay. If someone does not want to do that, then sorry, no benefit. I am not forcing anyone to do anything by the way. They force it on themselves. There are other places where they can work too. Unfortunately the last 30 years or so we have cultivated an entitlement culture where people have become dependent on the state and are loath to look after themselves and their responsibilities. Your comments are full of entitlement.

100% agreed.

Bang on observation about the woke pixie dusted Labourite posters on this thread - all about entitlements and justifying why beneficiaries need not work and it's society's fault - always. Bunch of losers.

[jonu]

Why work?
If you are a parent of a baby or young child you do work. They are a lot of work. And if you are a single parent it is a 24/7 job. It is not paid work but it definitely is work and child care centres expect to be paid to do it.
What a strange world when unpaid work is not considered work, and raising children is not considered work. Is it any wonder there is a breakdown of the family when raising children is not valued?

I agree with the general sentiment expressed here, but also see blackcap's points about self reliance. There is always a tension between a handup and a handout. I think our modern capitalist libertarian society has it wrong on both fronts at the moment. And I fear an extreme pendulum swing to the Left will only worsen matters. Sadly that is where Labour seems determined to take us, with or without the help of the Greens.

[fungus pudding]

Why work?
If you are a parent of a baby or young child you do work. They are a lot of work. And if you are a single parent it is a 24/7 job. It is not paid work but it definitely is work and child care centres expect to be paid to do it.
What a strange world when unpaid work is not considered work, and raising children is not considered work. Is it any wonder there is a breakdown of the family when raising children is not valued?

Of course it should not be paid work - anymore than washing your own car or vacuuming your house. If it's a problem - don't breed.