Labour / NZ First Government

[justakiwi]

Open your eyes and ears, justakiwi and review the China situation from the perspective of the Chinese, not the biased Western commentaries which cannot rise above the West vs Communism narrative.

You need to stop presuming you know what or how I think. Contrary to what you seem to believe, I am perfectly capable of forming my own opinions and views on things, based on my own research and learning. I am not the blind, brainwashed puppet, you continually accuse me of being. You need to stop treating women as gullible, brainless twits incapable of an original thought, because we are not.

You are right about the wealth gap in China where there are some very very wealthy individuals (sounds similar to the US, UK and NZ, right?) but never in the history of mankind have so many people been lifted out of abject poverty and basic existence as in China over the last 30 years.

https://www.business-standard.com/ar...1300027_1.html

But don't take my word for it, have a read of the article above.

Several of my business contacts are from China and they have nothing but praise for the way that their leaders have lifted their country out of the miserable state China was right until the 1990s.

I am not disputing the fact that things have improved in China. But there are still millions of people living in abject poverty, which is a fact you shouldn’t ignore.

Meanwhile, in NZ we have gone from first world during the 1950s to the 1970s to school children needing to be provided with lunches these days so they do not go hungry & can focus on their studies - what happened? What an absolute disgrace!

We are a country of three little islands located far away from the rest of the world. As a result, our every day costs are significantly higher than most countries. Our cost of living is, and always has been, high. No government has ever managed to solve this problem, or the problems of poverty. Least of all National. I have never said that things are perfect in NZ. We have significant area of major concern such as the high rate of domestic violence and associated child abuse/neglect. And before you respond with more beneficiary bashing, domestic violence and child abuse/neglect occurs in families from all walks of life. As someone who worked for 8 years in an admin role for what was then CYF, I can tell you this for a fact. You would probably be shocked to know just how many families we “worked with” were not in the beneficiary/low income category. I worked there under both National and Labour governments and neither party ever managed to solve the multitude of problems we were dealing with. You have no idea.

Balance, you make some comments in your posts that I don’t disagree with. But you rarely contribute any concrete solutions to the issues you are angry about. Take housing for example. We know what you think about KiwiBuild, so no need to repeat it, but what is your solution to the housing problem? If you were PM what would you do to solve it? I have my own ideas about how to solve some of this, but it’s an “outside the square” idea, that very few people would take seriously, let alone implement. Regardless of which government is in power, I think the time has come to move on from traditional ways of resolving issues like housing. We need to get creative, seriously look at what is actually needed, and be prepared to do something entirely different. We can’t just keep doing the same old same old and hope that it fixes things. The world is changing. NZ is changing.

I don’t have all the answers, but neither do you.

[Balance]

You need to stop presuming you know what or how I think. Contrary to what you seem to believe, I am perfectly capable of forming my own opinions and views on things, based on my own research and learning. I am not the blind, brainwashed puppet, you continually accuse me of being. You need to stop treating women as gullible, brainless twits incapable of an original thought, because we are not.



I am not disputing the fact that things have improved in China. But there are still millions of people living in abject poverty, which is a fact you shouldn’t ignore.

1. You are making a huge assumption yourself about how some of us view Cindy as indicative of how we view women as a whole.

We view Cindy for who she is - all style and no substance (all talk and no delivery) and that does not mean that we view women all the same way. Indira Gandhi, Golda Meir, Angela Merkel, Tsai Ing-wen and Margaret Thatcher are but some examples of real leaders who are/were all substance rather than style. Take a step back and differentiate between real leaders and popular leaders - Chavez was hell of a popular and he completely ruined a wealthy country with his populist policies.

2. China lifted 800m (yes, 87% of its population - source World Bank) out of poverty in less than 30 years and you are still busy trying to downplay that astounding achievement by looking at the wealth gap - which actually is smaller than that of the US or NZ! Sure there are millions there still living in abject poverty but nothing compared to what it was like 30 years ago. Look at the beam in NZ's eyes before you look at the speck in the eyes of others.

[blackcap]

2. China lifted 800m (yes, 87% of its population - source World Bank) out of poverty in less than 30 years and you are still busy trying to downplay that astounding achievement by looking at the wealth gap - which actually is smaller than that of the US or NZ! Sure there are millions there still living in abject poverty but nothing compared to what it was like 30 years ago. Look at the beam in NZ's eyes before you look at the speck in the eyes of others.

Thanks to that evil capitalism, globally 2 Billion people have been lifted out of poverty the last 30 years. Why are we even talking about inequality in that context.

[Balance]

Thanks to that evil capitalism, globally 2 Billion people have been lifted out of poverty the last 30 years. Why are we even talking about inequality in that context.

The huge mistake made out there is for anyone of us to blindly buy into the US narrative that it’s all about capitalism vs communism out there.

Different countries have the right to pursue whatever mix of policies appropriate to lift their standards of living & look after their people.

China & Russia adopted Communism economic policies to the horrendous detriment of their people’s wellbeing for decades.

They saw the light and introduced free market policies (call it capitalism) and few of their citizens would complain about how that has lifted living standards for their people.

[artemis]

..... Take housing for example. We know what you think about KiwiBuild, so no need to repeat it, but what is your solution to the housing problem? If you were PM what would you do to solve it? .....

First define the problem. No point in saying there's some sort of a problem and here's a solution. How does a government, or anyone, know they are solving the real problem? There is an answer to that question, and it is formal root cause analysis.

So, what is the 'housing problem'?

[justakiwi]

My comment about women was nothing to do with Jacinda. I was referring to the way you speak to me, and other women in this forum.

1. You are making a huge assumption yourself about how some of us view Cindy as indicative of how we view women as a whole.

We view Cindy for who she is - all style and no substance (all talk and no delivery) and that does not mean that we view women all the same way. Indira Gandhi, Golda Meir, Angela Merkel, Tsai Ing-wen and Margaret Thatcher are but some examples of real leaders who are/were all substance rather than style. Take a step back and differentiate between real leaders and popular leaders - Chavez was hell of a popular and he completely ruined a wealthy country with his populist policies.

2. China lifted 800m (yes, 87% of its population - source World Bank) out of poverty in less than 30 years and you are still busy trying to downplay that astounding achievement by looking at the wealth gap - which actually is smaller than that of the US or NZ! Sure there are millions there still living in abject poverty but nothing compared to what it was like 30 years ago. Look at the beam in NZ's eyes before you look at the speck in the eyes of others.

[Balance]

We are a country of three little islands located far away from the rest of the world. As a result, our every day costs are significantly higher than most countries. Our cost of living is, and always has been, high. No government has ever managed to solve this problem, or the problems of poverty. Least of all National. I have never said that things are perfect in NZ. We have significant area of major concern such as the high rate of domestic violence and associated child abuse/neglect. And before you respond with more beneficiary bashing, domestic violence and child abuse/neglect occurs in families from all walks of life. As someone who worked for 8 years in an admin role for what was then CYF, I can tell you this for a fact. You would probably be shocked to know just how many families we “worked with” were not in the beneficiary/low income category. I worked there under both National and Labour governments and neither party ever managed to solve the multitude of problems we were dealing with. You have no idea.

That is a cop out.

NZ used to enjoy one of the highest standard of living in the world right through the 1950s to the mid 1970s. You need to assess why NZ has gone backwards in such a big way since then to understand why school children need lunch handouts and there are homeless & beggars in the street today.

The simple answer can be provided by this question :

"How can there be tens of thousands of jobs a begging in the agricultural sector when there are several hundred thousand NZers unemployed and on the benefit?"

[Balance]

My comment about women was nothing to do with Jacinda. I was referring to the way you speak to me, and other women in this forum.

if you have not noticed, I speak to everyone the same way.

Gets me banned once in a while - most unfairly may I add.

[Balance]

Balance, you make some comments in your posts that I don’t disagree with. But you rarely contribute any concrete solutions to the issues you are angry about. Take housing for example. We know what you think about KiwiBuild, so no need to repeat it, but what is your solution to the housing problem? If you were PM what would you do to solve it? I have my own ideas about how to solve some of this, but it’s an “outside the square” idea, that very few people would take seriously, let alone implement. Regardless of which government is in power, I think the time has come to move on from traditional ways of resolving issues like housing. We need to get creative, seriously look at what is actually needed, and be prepared to do something entirely different. We can’t just keep doing the same old same old and hope that it fixes things. The world is changing. NZ is changing.

I don’t have all the answers, but neither do you.

Go back to how NZ solved the housing shortages in the 1950s and 60s to start with.

[justakiwi]

Yes, you treat anyone who disagrees with you despicably, but whether you realise it or not, you are even more condescending and contemptuous when speaking to women. You are more than a little misogynistic and pretty arrogant. But you don’t need me to tell you that. It is your way of making you feel like a tough guy, when you’re really the opposite.

Tell me ... are you like this in “real life” or is this just a persona you have created because you get your rocks off by winding people up intentionally, just for your personal entertainment? You actually quite fascinate me to be honest. You would make interesting subject material for a psychology class.

if you have not noticed, I speak to everyone the same way.

Gets me banned once in a while - most unfairly may I add.