Labour / NZ First Government

[couta1]

The school lunch program is just a cop out, even though I grew up in poverty I still had food for lunch, parents would have been highly embarrassed to have the state providing lunch for their children when its the most basic of parental responsibility. I guess it just gives the many irresponsible parents more money for their personal vices.

[Bjauck]

...
"How can there be tens of thousands of jobs a begging in the agricultural sector when there are several hundred thousand NZers unemployed and on the benefit?"

My answer:
NZ farm and market gardening agriculture has to an extent become reliant on foreign seasonal workers, many of whom come from poor countries.

Covid control measures have restricted the supply of seasonal cheap foreign labour. Without offering higher pay and better conditions, NZ workers are not attracted to the jobs that had appealed to the poor seasonal foreign workers.

If this situation continues:
(1) other input costs will fall e.g. Land prices.
(2) the level of unemployment benefits will need to drop if unemployment levels rise unacceptably..
(3) orchard owners will have to accept that they will have to offer higher pay levels and receive a lower rate of profit.
(4) NZ will import more produce.
(5) the consumer will pay higher prices for produce.
(6) Agricultural land will be sold and new owners may turn it over for other uses.
(7) All or a combination of the above.

[fungus pudding]

My answer:
NZ farm and market gardening agriculture has to an extent become reliant on foreign seasonal workers, many of whom come from poor countries.

Covid control measures have restricted the supply of seasonal cheap foreign labour. Without offering higher pay and better conditions, NZ workers are not attracted to the jobs that had appealed to the poor seasonal foreign workers.

If this situation continues:
(1) other input costs will fall e.g. Land prices.
(2) the level of unemployment benefits will need to drop if unemployment levels rise unacceptably..
(3) orchard owners will have to accept that they will have to offer higher pay levels and receive a lower rate of profit.
(4) NZ will import more produce.
(5) the consumer will pay higher prices for produce.
(6) Agricultural land will be sold and new owners may turn it over for other uses.
(7) All or a combination of the above.

None of that addresses Balances' question which was
"How can there be tens of thousands of jobs a begging in the agricultural sector when there are several hundred thousand NZers unemployed and on the benefit?"

[couta1]

None of that addresses Balances' question which was
"How can there be tens of thousands of jobs a begging in the agricultural sector when there are several hundred thousand NZers unemployed and on the benefit?"

The answer is just like in the aged care sector they are in many cases simply too lazy and can't be bothered, why put in hard work when you can get paid for sitting on your arse, even when they were offering well above minimum wages for the tree planting enterprise, there were basically no locals interested.

[Bjauck]

None of that addresses Balances' question which was
"How can there be tens of thousands of jobs a begging in the agricultural sector when there are several hundred thousand NZers unemployed and on the benefit?"

Without offering higher pay and better conditions, NZ workers (including unemployed workers) are not attracted to the jobs that had appealed to the poor seasonal foreign workers.

Addition in brackets for clarity.

[fungus pudding]

Without offering higher pay and better conditions, NZ workers (including unemployed workers) are not attracted to the jobs that had appealed to the poor seasonal foreign workers.

Addition in brackets for clarity.

Well they should get back to their nuclear physics or brain surgery then or whatever else they have spent years studying for.

[justakiwi]

Not everyone is suited to working in aged care as you well know. It may not be seen by society as a “skilled” job, but it is a damned sight harder than the general public probably appreciates. It is physically demanding - I spend 99% of a 7.5 hour shift, on my feet. A certain amount of lifting/bending/crouching is required, even with the use of hoists/lifting belts etc. It is probably not a job for somebody with genuine physical limitations eg: back, knee, shoulder injuries/issues.

Caregivers need to be able to deal with personal cares such as toileting, showering, assisting with continence products, catheter and stoma bags, bleeding, vomiting, applying topical/internal medications to genital areas and more. It takes a special kind of person to be able to do this, not to mention provide this care in a caring, respectful, patient, tolerant, consistent way. Some people simply can’t handle it. Not everyone is cut out to be a nurse. Neither is everyone cut out to be a caregiver. It is unfair and unrealistic to expect the general population of unemployed people to simply “suck it up” and do these jobs if it’s not something they can physically or emotionally handle.

Same goes for farming. I don’t want someone who is not passionate about caregiving, working with me in our rest home, or caring for my mum in hers. Farmers don’t want someone working for them who are not passionate about farming. Dairy farming is mentioned a lot. Yes, there are a lot of jobs going, but pay rates for dairy farm workers are low. My son works as a dairy farm manager but they can’t afford to pay their staff more than the minimum wage. They also can’t always provide accommodation. Hours are long and rosters vary greatly from farm to farm. There may well be unemployed people who would do this work, but how are they supposed to move their family to a new location, find accommodation, transport, work for the partner and childcare to enable them to do it for minimum wage? It is not always as simple as it seems, believe me.

The answer is just like in the aged care sector they are in many cases simply too lazy and can't be bothered, why put in hard work when you can get paid for sitting on your arse, even when they were offering well above minimum wages for the tree planting enterprise, there were basically no locals interested.

[artemis]

My answer:
NZ farm and market gardening agriculture has to an extent become reliant on foreign seasonal workers, many of whom come from poor countries.

Covid control measures have restricted the supply of seasonal cheap foreign labour. Without offering higher pay and better conditions, NZ workers are not attracted to the jobs that had appealed to the poor seasonal foreign workers.

If this situation continues:
(1) other input costs will fall e.g. Land prices.
(2) the level of unemployment benefits will need to drop if unemployment levels rise unacceptably..
(3) orchard owners will have to accept that they will have to offer higher pay levels and receive a lower rate of profit.
(4) NZ will import more produce.
(5) the consumer will pay higher prices for produce.
(6) Agricultural land will be sold and new owners may turn it over for other uses.
(7) All or a combination of the above.

(8) Switch to lower labour requirements. My cuz turned his dairy farm into growing spuds for a contracted client, for example. Get government funding, plant trees where the grazing or apple trees were, wait a couple of decades.
(9) Automation / robotics. Already here, quietly expanding, even being exported.

[Raz]

Yes, you treat anyone who disagrees with you despicably, but whether you realise it or not, you are even more condescending and contemptuous when speaking to women. You are more than a little misogynistic and pretty arrogant. But you don’t need me to tell you that. It is your way of making you feel like a tough guy, when you’re really the opposite.

Tell me ... are you like this in “real life” or is this just a persona you have created because you get your rocks off by winding people up intentionally, just for your personal entertainment? You actually quite fascinate me to be honest. You would make interesting subject material for a psychology class.

Interesting angle, i recently met two people who came across this way online and I was surprised how different they were in real life, one in business and the other in social setting respectively. Certainly their bark went no further than online.

[artemis]

The answer is just like in the aged care sector they are in many cases simply too lazy and can't be bothered, why put in hard work when you can get paid for sitting on your arse, even when they were offering well above minimum wages for the tree planting enterprise, there were basically no locals interested.

My go to question when someone tells me they can't find a job - Have you knocked on the doors of the aged care centres? Answer always - no. Pretty sure when higher rates were mandated some rest homes changed job duties for some roles to no client contact. And some closed completely as no longer financially viable.