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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by zgnz View Post
    The most likely outcome of any potential RBA regulation would be to allow Merchants to pass on some of the Afterpay Merchant charge (surcharge) to the customer. However I don't see many Merchants actually taking this up, as it would piss off the customers, likely reducing demand. Don't forget that people using Afterpay are spending MORE on average, and Merchants are earning more, even after Afterpay takes it's commission of 4-6%. There is a reason all these businesses have added Afterpay in the first place!
    Credit card customers spend more on average than cash customers, and yet the instant merchants were allowed to pass on that surcharge, they did. Larger merchants will likely continue to absorb it, yet those merchants probably have preferential pricing anyway. You absolutely underestimate the short sightedness of Australian and NZ merchants.

    Quote Originally Posted by zgnz View Post
    I could see some smaller Merchants passing on the charge, if they could. But Afterpay could also effectively blackout any businesses that try this by removing them from the free Afterpay Directory (currently sends 14M+ leads a month, for example.)
    It is unlikely that they would be permitted to do this if they were regulated. They'd be forced to treat everyone equally, but there'd almost certainly be a "surcharge free" filter

    Quote Originally Posted by alex f View Post
    They make a big mention of active customers, but those could be people who have only used it once. I don’t understand the whole premise. You need a credit card to use Afterpay and get 42 days to make 3 payments after the 25% deposit. The credit card offers 55 days if items are bought in the correct cycle. Sounds to me like they are attracting people who have their credit cards maxed out. PB Tech offers Oxipay and Lay-bys .com So there is competition out there. The 2 founders are dumping shares today and have promised not to sell more until after the AGM.
    All it would take is the credit card companies offering a similar service.
    Afterpay actually have said in their response to the RBA that the majority of their customers have a debit card attached - not a credit card. This mans the interest free period on credit cards isn't relevant, and also that Afterpay isn't paying as much to process the card.
    Last edited by kyanar; 07-07-2020 at 12:35 PM.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyanar View Post
    Credit card customers spend more on average than cash customers, and yet the instant merchants were allowed to pass on that surcharge, they did. Larger merchants will likely continue to absorb it, yet those merchants probably have preferential pricing anyway. You absolutely underestimate the short sightedness of Australian and NZ merchants.

    Yeah you're probably right. Afterpay will no doubt will fight it hard, as it would complicate the simplicity of the current product & value proposition "interest free."

    Looks like from reading today's announcements, the RBA review is on hold until next year.


    Quote Originally Posted by alex f View Post
    They make a big mention of active customers, but those could be people who have only used it once. I don’t understand the whole premise. You need a credit card to use Afterpay and get 42 days to make 3 payments after the 25% deposit. The credit card offers 55 days if items are bought in the correct cycle. Sounds to me like they are attracting people who have their credit cards maxed out. PB Tech offers Oxipay and Lay-bys .com So there is competition out there.
    As kyanar mentioned above, 87%+ of Afterpay users are using it with their debit card. It provides some of the functionality of a credit card, without actually having one. Only a small minority of younger people nowadays are actually signing up for a credit card. There is a psychological component to it also, where users feel like they are spending/budgeting with their own money in their account, rather than getting a multi thousand dollar limit to spend on a credit card (which is overwhelming, and some young people don't necessarily trust themselves.)

    Quote Originally Posted by alex f View Post
    All it would take is the credit card companies offering a similar service.
    Visa & Mastercard don't lend, it's up to the banks to do that. There is also no real incentive for banks to offer a new interest free installment product, as it competes with their current credit card business. This is why BNPL Model is incredibly disruptive, as it's Merchant pays, rather than Consumer. Afterpay have effectively gone and negotiated with each Merchant a commission & integrated the Afterpay gateway in the online checkout flow & (increasingly) in-store.

    Quote Originally Posted by alex f View Post
    The 2 founders are dumping shares today and have promised not to sell more until after the AGM.
    I wouldn't necessarily classify the sales as 'dumping'. They've sold 10% of their shareholding, like they did at about the same time last year.
    Last edited by zgnz; 07-07-2020 at 03:20 PM.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by zgnz View Post
    Visa & Mastercard don't lend, it's up to the banks to do that. There is also no real incentive for banks to offer a new interest free installment product, as it competes with their current credit card business. This is why BNPL Model is incredibly disruptive, as it's Merchant pays, rather than Consumer
    You're missing that at least one credit card company has been doing it for donkey's years as a standard credit product - Latitude/GE Money (Gem Visa/Go Mastercard/Creditline). The difference is that Afterpay takes that same model and makes the repayments more bite sized on smaller purchases, with a shiny "FinTech" label.

  4. #74
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    on fire again, check out SZL as well, sectors all up.

  5. #75
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    Afterpay now a 10 bagger from its March low of $8.01 to the price just now of $80.70

    Incredibly stuff, trade of the year!

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaa View Post
    Afterpay now a 10 bagger from its March low of $8.01 to the price just now of $80.70

    Incredibly stuff, trade of the year!
    I left a lot of money on the table with my moral stance on "pay later" companies.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by silu View Post
    I left a lot of money on the table with my moral stance on "pay later" companies.
    In my honest opinion Afterpay actually encourages responsible spending, more so than the banks. The whole way it started was from consumers becoming more savvy to debt and interest, with the movement away from credit cards. People enjoy afterpay because it makes it easier to budget payments for the things you want.

    Afterpay has industry leading customer advocacy scores, never charges interest and bars further spending when you get behind in payments. They also only lend up to $2000 and only once you have a good crediy history. This varies quite a bit from the standard credit card which charges 20.95% p.a., plus late fees.

    I realise this sounds like a bit of a pitch, but i genuinely believe there's a reason Afterpay is one of the most loved companies in Australia.

  8. #78
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    Afterpay announcing entry into mainland Europe (Spain, France, Italy, Portugal) through an acquisition.

    These countries make perfect sense to enter, due to little penetration of BNPL solutions in these markets thus far, and the predominant use of debit & credit cards in ecommerce payments.

    Other EU countries likely won't be a priority, like Germany where Open Invoice payments (pay after delivery) is already extremely popular & solution saturated. Likewise Afterpay's competitor Klarna also already has a dominant position in Northern Europe (Germany, Sweden, Norway etc.)

    Interesting to see how bad debts fair in these Southern European countries, no doubt they've studied the books closely of the acquiree.

  9. #79
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    Good video comparing the BNPL stocks on ASX.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eLYsZFZiI4
    The Complete BNPL 2020 Guide After PayPal's Announcement | ASX Growth Stocks (APT, Z1P, QFE, SZL)
    Today we dive in and discuss all things Buy Now, Pay Later (BNPL) after PayPal's announcement entering the BNPL space this week. We analyse and discuss the following stocks: - Afterpay (ASX: APT) - ZipCo (ASX: Z1P) - Quick Fee (ASX: QFE) - SplitIt (ASX: SPT) - Sezzle (ASX: SZL) - OpenPay (ASX: OPY)

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by moka View Post
    Good video comparing the BNPL stocks on ASX.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eLYsZFZiI4
    The Complete BNPL 2020 Guide After PayPal's Announcement | ASX Growth Stocks (APT, Z1P, QFE, SZL)
    Today we dive in and discuss all things Buy Now, Pay Later (BNPL) after PayPal's announcement entering the BNPL space this week. We analyse and discuss the following stocks: - Afterpay (ASX: APT) - ZipCo (ASX: Z1P) - Quick Fee (ASX: QFE) - SplitIt (ASX: SPT) - Sezzle (ASX: SZL) - OpenPay (ASX: OPY)
    Many thanks for this. Ive been roving around in the Sth island from kin loch to Mt Cook so have missed alot of happenings. Holding QFE and plan to buy more.

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