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  1. #31
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    It is really messed up. I have shares in Two Australian listed funds, both run by Magellan
    MHH high conviction fund and MFF Magellan capital investments fund. Both seem to have a similar structure yet MHH is not FIF exempt but MFF is. I can’t see the logic, all very confusing.

    Does the status stay the same year after year? According to current rules I would be better off putting any excess over 50k into MHH, but could the status change year on year?
    Last edited by ratkin; 21-06-2021 at 02:22 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratkin View Post
    It is really messed up. I have shares in Two Australian listed funds, both run by Magellan
    MHH high conviction fund and MFF Magellan capital investments fund. Both seem to have a similar structure yet MHH is not FIF exempt but MFF is. I can’t see the logic, all very confusing.

    Does the status stay the same year after year? According to current rules I would be better off putting any excess over 50k into MHH, but could the status change year on year?
    If you are wanting to stay clear of FIF then would you not need to invest in MFF rather than MHH?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratkin View Post
    It is really messed up. I have shares in Two Australian listed funds, both run by Magellan
    MHH high conviction fund and MFF Magellan capital investments fund. Both seem to have a similar structure yet MHH is not FIF exempt but MFF is. I can’t see the logic, all very confusing.

    Does the status stay the same year after year? According to current rules I would be better off putting any excess over 50k into MHH, but could the status change year on year?
    As with many of the great quotes about Life (the Universe & Everything) it was Douglas Adams who coined the phrase

    Rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainity

    The 'logic' is straight forward:

    MHH is predominantly/totally invested in companies outside of Oz/NZ offers no franking on dividends and you is totaly FIffed.

    MFF investments included a sufficient % of Australian companies and provides sufficient franking with their dividends that they are the on otherside of the 'threshold' and are FIF exempt.

    These statements are true for the last tax year.


    Other years?
    Well that depends on that magical dividing line as to whether they will be on one side or the other, and how you will have to account for them.

    Good old Douglas, I miss him.
    om mani peme hum

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Leopard View Post

    The 'logic' is straight forward:

    MHH is predominantly/totally invested in companies outside of Oz/NZ offers no franking on dividends and you is totaly FIffed.

    MFF investments included a sufficient % of Australian companies and provides sufficient franking with their dividends that they are the on otherside of the 'threshold' and are FIF exempt.

    These statements are true for the last tax year.


    .
    54237B77-FD3E-416B-9A87-A9643D319F70.jpg

    Here is the list of MFF investments over 0.1% of their portfolio and I am not seeing any Australian companies. So unless the “sufficient amount” is miniscule then I am still in the dark as to why Mhh had Fif but Mff does not.

  5. #35
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    Yes, probably best to ignore what I said as it is wrong, though I am sure it used to be right a few years ago .

    It would seem that now the simple rules are ( ignoring the tricky bits ):

    If it is an Australian (or NZ) tax resident company that can (in theory or practice) pay franked dividends it is exempt.

    Otherwise it isn't.


    So MFF as an Oz company is good,
    and MHH as an Oz ETF are FIF.

    Even ETF's that 'invest' totally in Oz shares and pay franked dividends are FIF!
    om mani peme hum

  6. #36
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    Like an earlier poster I've just gone through the process of completing IRD's FIF calculator and then finding I've been wasting my time as I have to do it all again for my return. Perhaps IRD could put a little note by it clarify what a waste of time it is. Grrrrrr!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwico View Post
    Like an earlier poster I've just gone through the process of completing IRD's FIF calculator and then finding I've been wasting my time as I have to do it all again for my return. Perhaps IRD could put a little note by it clarify what a waste of time it is. Grrrrrr!
    They never said the FIF was easy. Even accountants get it wrong. In industry, financial advisors are clueless about FIF or it's impact on their client's portfolio. Their goal is to make things so complicated that no one knows and therefore, people would just 'trust' their investment in Kiwi Saver or PIE so you don't have to worry about FIF. Warren Buffet calls them "The Helpers" as they charge commissions like crazy and everyone from the financial advisor, to the management of the funds, up and down the chain including IRD, all get their cut.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwico View Post
    Like an earlier poster I've just gone through the process of completing IRD's FIF calculator and then finding I've been wasting my time as I have to do it all again for my return. Perhaps IRD could put a little note by it clarify what a waste of time it is. Grrrrrr!
    I don't understand your comment. The IRD on line FIF calculator is just that, an on-line tool. It is made very clear the information you put into it is not sent to the IRD. So of course you have to submit the information again when you submit your tax form. However, the FIF calculator does have a formatting feature that allows you to print your inputs and the calculator outputs as a pdf. I always do that to ensure that my time on the FIF calculator does not get lost.

    SNOOPY
    Watch out for the most persistent and dangerous version of Covid-19: B.S.24/7

  9. #39
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    I just paid Hatch $50 to do mine. Was worth every cent. I tried doing it myself but am too lazy and stupid.

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