Direct Broking

[blackcap]

Your assuming that both buyer and seller are DB clients yet a lot of the time they are only gaining the $30 from one side of the transaction unless both buyer and seller are DB clients.They have a far wider matching ability now with FNZC on tap and a much bigger pool of easily accessible clients for matching orders.

no disagree. FNZC owns DB (DB is FNZC) so still no double clipping as you had put it. Sorry but the only reason I can think of for matching in house is to get better outcomes for both sets (or at least one) of clients.

Ie you say sell my TRA down to 2.28 for an order or 100k. FNZC know they also have a buyer wanting to buy x amount that day at all sorts of prices ranging from 2.30 to 2.33. They might then fill your sell order at 2.31 with the client so that you get a better deal and the client picks up some at a good price too.

[couta1]

no disagree. FNZC owns DB (DB is FNZC) so still no double clipping as you had put it. Sorry but the only reason I can think of for matching in house is to get better outcomes for both sets (or at least one) of clients.

Ie you say sell my TRA down to 2.28 for an order or 100k. FNZC know they also have a buyer wanting to buy x amount that day at all sorts of prices ranging from 2.30 to 2.33. They might then fill your sell order at 2.31 with the client so that you get a better deal and the client picks up some at a good price too.

We will agree to disagree, we seem to be looking at things very differently, regardless they are making heaps.

[blackcap]

We will agree to disagree, we seem to be looking at things very differently, regardless they are making heaps.

Fair enough.

What I am not happy about with DB is the amount of time it takes to get the order to market. And there are no excuses for that whatsoever.

When I used to work for DB as a broker (long time ago now) when an order came in you were supposed to get it to market within 30 seconds. See the order, check if there are other DB orders it could be matched with, if so, do the match, if not, execute the order on screen.
I am guessing that since most FNZC orders will not be on the screen to start with it can be a complicated mess asking all the other brokers "do you have a buyer for xxx" or does anyone have a seller for "xxx". Especially if said broker is out to lunch or on a call.
At DB we did have institutional brokers but they usually told us what they were looking for to buy or sell so you had a pretty good idea of what could be in house matched. Sometimes I did put something on the screen (executed a trade) to have a broker angrily come and say "i had a client who wanted those" but generally it worked fine.

[Onion]

Fair enough.

What I am not happy about with DB is the amount of time it takes to get the order to market. And there are no excuses for that whatsoever.

When I used to work for DB as a broker (long time ago now) when an order came in you were supposed to get it to market within 30 seconds. See the order, check if there are other DB orders it could be matched with, if so, do the match, if not, execute the order on screen.
I am guessing that since most FNZC orders will not be on the screen to start with it can be a complicated mess asking all the other brokers "do you have a buyer for xxx" or does anyone have a seller for "xxx". Especially if said broker is out to lunch or on a call.
At DB we did have institutional brokers but they usually told us what they were looking for to buy or sell so you had a pretty good idea of what could be in house matched. Sometimes I did put something on the screen (executed a trade) to have a broker angrily come and say "i had a client who wanted those" but generally it worked fine.

You describe mechanisms that computers do very well very quickly.

[Beagle]

Fair enough.

What I am not happy about with DB is the amount of time it takes to get the order to market. And there are no excuses for that whatsoever.

It is very concerning. I am also deeply concerned with the cultural difference between how ANZ securities ran the business and FCNZ.
FCNZ take an extremely liberal approach to using their market discretion. Let me post a good example. The other day I placed a small top up order for 1500 Synlait with a $9.68 limit. There were several thousand on offer at that price. It did not appear to be processed for about 10 minutes so I phoned to find out what was going on.
Best bid was $9.62 and the previous days close was $9.56 (down 32 cps). I was told the didn't want to hit the bid at $9.68 because that would involve an untoward movement in the share price.
They want stability and order in the market, or words to that effect. This seems bizarre given the previous days share price decline. I hardly think a trade that adds 12 cents to the share price after a 32 cents per share decline the day before is disorderly or inappropriate in any way.
My response. Well if the share price runs away north I expect you have a legal obligation to fill my order at $9.68 and I'll be looking to enforce that obligation. As long as its clear the risk is on FCNZ that's fine. The order was filled at $9.65 about 2 hours later but the point is I placed an order at a price limit for immediate execution and they delayed it for reasons that I think are unreasonable.
This discretion thing they have and use is really getting on my nerves.

[bull....]

It is very concerning. I am also deeply concerned with the cultural difference between how ANZ securities ran the business and FCNZ.
FCNZ take an extremely liberal approach to using their market discretion. Let me post a good example. The other day I placed a small top up order for 1500 Synlait with a $9.68 limit. There were several thousand on offer at that price. It did not appear to be processed for about 10 minutes so I phoned to find out what was going on.
Best bid was $9.62 and the previous days close was $9.56 (down 32 cps). I was told the didn't want to hit the bid at $9.68 because that would involve an untoward movement in the share price.
They want stability and order in the market, or words to that effect. This seems bizarre given the previous days share price decline. I hardly think a trade that adds 12 cents to the share price after a 32 cents per share decline the day before is disorderly or inappropriate in any way.
My response. Well if the share price runs away north I expect you have a legal obligation to fill my order at $9.68 and I'll be looking to enforce that obligation. As long as its clear the risk is on FCNZ that's fine. The order was filled at $9.65 about 2 hours later but the point is I placed an order at a price limit for immediate execution and they delayed it for reasons that I think are unreasonable.
This discretion thing they have and use is really getting on my nerves.

they are following nzx rules , these very silly rules discourage trading hence why i do more overseas now than nz

[forest]

It is very concerning. I am also deeply concerned with the cultural difference between how ANZ securities ran the business and FCNZ.
FCNZ take an extremely liberal approach to using their market discretion. Let me post a good example. The other day I placed a small top up order for 1500 Synlait with a $9.68 limit. There were several thousand on offer at that price. It did not appear to be processed for about 10 minutes so I phoned to find out what was going on.
Best bid was $9.62 and the previous days close was $9.56 (down 32 cps). I was told the didn't want to hit the bid at $9.68 because that would involve an untoward movement in the share price.
They want stability and order in the market, or words to that effect. This seems bizarre given the previous days share price decline. I hardly think a trade that adds 12 cents to the share price after a 32 cents per share decline the day before is disorderly or inappropriate in any way.
My response. Well if the share price runs away north I expect you have a legal obligation to fill my order at $9.68 and I'll be looking to enforce that obligation. As long as its clear the risk is on FCNZ that's fine. The order was filled at $9.65 about 2 hours later but the point is I placed an order at a price limit for immediate execution and they delayed it for reasons that I think are unreasonable.
This discretion thing they have and use is really getting on my nerves.

Frustrating, if the same happens with a sell order than your funds are locked up for this extra time, that can easily prevent you from timely putting the next buy order in.
We are experience investors/traders, we are the market and we should decide if share prices are flat lining, go up or down slow or fast. We do not want baby sitting by our broker, full stop.

[forest]

I would be surprised if it was NZX rules causing such extreme delays. Trades used to go to market within seconds. Read blackcap post, he is an ex DB broker employee.

[Beagle]

Frustrating, if the same happens with a sell order than your funds are locked up for this extra time, that can easily prevent you from timely putting the next buy order in.
We are experience investors/traders, we are the market and we should decide if share prices are flat lining, go up or down slow or fast. We do not want baby sitting by our broker, full stop.

Exactly Forest. What on earth is wrong with a 12 cents share price rise on a $9.56 share, only a little over 1% when ATM the same morning was up 50 cents per share.
Do they realise that these two companies fortunes are inextricably linked or don't they care about timely execution of orders ?
Maybe its time to revisit the idea of dealing with ASB securities even though their brokerage rates are a bit higher...

Agree with your last post too. Oder execution is extremely slow...not enough staff. They fully deserve to lose a significant amount of business if they continue to conduct themselves in this manner. No point emailing Fiona McKenzie their so called head of operations because she never replies or returns phone calls.
https://www.fnzc.co.nz/direct-broking-team/

[bull....]

In ensuring their trading conduct promotes and helps maintain an orderly market, NZXParticipants consider a range of circumstances relevant to the current conditions of the marketfor any financial product. Accordingly, in allowing each Order to proceed through to the market,NZX Participants must first determine (among other things): Whether the execution of that Order is consistent with the recent trading activity in therelevant financial product; andGUIDANCE NOTE – TRADING CONDUCT – MARCH 2018 6 of 32 Whether the execution of that Order will materially affect the price or market for therelevant financial product.1

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws....ch_2018%29.pdf


silly nzx rules discourage trading

[kizame]

Exactly Forest. What on earth is wrong with a 12 cents share price rise on a $9.56 share, only a little over 1% when ATM the same morning was up 50 cents per share.
Do they realise that these two companies fortunes are inextricably linked or don't they care about timely execution of orders ?
Maybe its time to revisit the idea of dealing with ASB securities even though their brokerage rates are a bit higher...

Agree with your last post too. Oder execution is extremely slow...not enough staff. They fully deserve to lose a significant amount of business if they continue to conduct themselves in this manner. No point emailing Fiona McKenzie their so called head of operations because she never replies or returns phone calls.
https://www.fnzc.co.nz/direct-broking-team/

I havn't had this but this mornings trade,should have been electronically instant,they do come up with BS excuses,last time I enquired why it took so long for orders to even appear I was told that they had to check my csn no. now common(anz sec)in this digitally enhanced age.
I am starting to think that what happened to you was more not ruffling FNZC managed clients holdings,I don't know just a thought.

[Beagle]

In ensuring their trading conduct promotes and helps maintain an orderly market, NZXParticipants consider a range of circumstances relevant to the current conditions of the marketfor any financial product. Accordingly, in allowing each Order to proceed through to the market,NZX Participants must first determine (among other things): Whether the execution of that Order is consistent with the recent trading activity in therelevant financial product; andGUIDANCE NOTE – TRADING CONDUCT – MARCH 2018 6 of 32 Whether the execution of that Order will materially affect the price or market for therelevant financial product.1

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws....ch_2018%29.pdf


silly nzx rules discourage trading

Thanks for posting the link. Section 3 "Orderly Markets" On a quick review I note the examples they give refer to a 20% price increase and a 14% price decrease respectively. The example I gave above refers to a 1.25% price increase on Synlait and was well within the scope of the price the shares traded at during the previous days trading range. I would therefore conclude that Direct Broking wrongly used their discretion in the example I posted above and are in breech of their fiduciary obligation to put their clients best interests first. I felt that at the time which is why I warned them, (all calls are recorded) that if the order wasn't filled at $9.68 the risk was on them and I would expect them to honour my buy order at that price.

I think there is a MAJOR cultural difference between FCNZ trading as Direct Broking and the former ANZ securities and I find it very annoying.

[777]

Time for another online broker to appear.

[bull....]

Thanks for posting the link. Section 3 "Orderly Markets" On a quick review I note the examples they give refer to a 20% price increase and a 14% price decrease respectively. The example I gave above refers to a 1.25% price increase on Synlait and was well within the scope of the price the shares traded at during the previous days trading range. I would therefore conclude that Direct Broking wrongly used their discretion in the example I posted above and are in breech of their fiduciary obligation to put their clients best interests first. I felt that at the time which is why I warned them, (all calls are recorded) that if the order wasn't filled at $9.68 the risk was on them and I would expect them to honour my buy order at that price.

I think there is a MAJOR cultural difference between FCNZ trading as Direct Broking and the former ANZ securities and I find it very annoying.

if you dont think they are implementing the rules satisfactory i think there is a disapline panel you can complain to who will investigate.

i got sick and tired of this silly rules ruining my trading on nzx and after all my complaints to broker where just we follow the rules etc i decided oh well more money for overseas brokers

[airedale]

In the past I have used Etrade on the ASX {but not for some time}. Trades were lightning fast. Orders were filled in no time. and contract notes followed very quickly.