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Thread: Direct Broking

  1. #41
    Senior Member kizame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Exactly Forest. What on earth is wrong with a 12 cents share price rise on a $9.56 share, only a little over 1% when ATM the same morning was up 50 cents per share.
    Do they realise that these two companies fortunes are inextricably linked or don't they care about timely execution of orders ?
    Maybe its time to revisit the idea of dealing with ASB securities even though their brokerage rates are a bit higher...

    Agree with your last post too. Oder execution is extremely slow...not enough staff. They fully deserve to lose a significant amount of business if they continue to conduct themselves in this manner. No point emailing Fiona McKenzie their so called head of operations because she never replies or returns phone calls.
    https://www.fnzc.co.nz/direct-broking-team/
    I havn't had this but this mornings trade,should have been electronically instant,they do come up with BS excuses,last time I enquired why it took so long for orders to even appear I was told that they had to check my csn no. now common(anz sec)in this digitally enhanced age.
    I am starting to think that what happened to you was more not ruffling FNZC managed clients holdings,I don't know just a thought.

  2. #42
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bull.... View Post
    In ensuring their trading conduct promotes and helps maintain an orderly market, NZXParticipants consider a range of circumstances relevant to the current conditions of the marketfor any financial product. Accordingly, in allowing each Order to proceed through to the market,NZX Participants must first determine (among other things): Whether the execution of that Order is consistent with the recent trading activity in therelevant financial product; andGUIDANCE NOTE – TRADING CONDUCT – MARCH 2018 6 of 32 Whether the execution of that Order will materially affect the price or market for therelevant financial product.1

    https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws....ch_2018%29.pdf


    silly nzx rules discourage trading
    Thanks for posting the link. Section 3 "Orderly Markets" On a quick review I note the examples they give refer to a 20% price increase and a 14% price decrease respectively. The example I gave above refers to a 1.25% price increase on Synlait and was well within the scope of the price the shares traded at during the previous days trading range. I would therefore conclude that Direct Broking wrongly used their discretion in the example I posted above and are in breech of their fiduciary obligation to put their clients best interests first. I felt that at the time which is why I warned them, (all calls are recorded) that if the order wasn't filled at $9.68 the risk was on them and I would expect them to honour my buy order at that price.

    I think there is a MAJOR cultural difference between FCNZ trading as Direct Broking and the former ANZ securities and I find it very annoying.
    Last edited by Beagle; 20-02-2019 at 11:58 AM.
    Solomon actually left us with some investment advice about proper diversification in Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.” Proverbs 27:12 "The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty".

  3. #43
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    Time for another online broker to appear.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Thanks for posting the link. Section 3 "Orderly Markets" On a quick review I note the examples they give refer to a 20% price increase and a 14% price decrease respectively. The example I gave above refers to a 1.25% price increase on Synlait and was well within the scope of the price the shares traded at during the previous days trading range. I would therefore conclude that Direct Broking wrongly used their discretion in the example I posted above and are in breech of their fiduciary obligation to put their clients best interests first. I felt that at the time which is why I warned them, (all calls are recorded) that if the order wasn't filled at $9.68 the risk was on them and I would expect them to honour my buy order at that price.

    I think there is a MAJOR cultural difference between FCNZ trading as Direct Broking and the former ANZ securities and I find it very annoying.
    if you dont think they are implementing the rules satisfactory i think there is a disapline panel you can complain to who will investigate.

    i got sick and tired of this silly rules ruining my trading on nzx and after all my complaints to broker where just we follow the rules etc i decided oh well more money for overseas brokers
    Last edited by bull....; 20-02-2019 at 12:03 PM.
    bull
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  5. #45
    Senior Member airedale's Avatar
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    In the past I have used Etrade on the ASX {but not for some time}. Trades were lightning fast. Orders were filled in no time. and contract notes followed very quickly.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by forest View Post
    I would be surprised if it was NZX rules causing such extreme delays. Trades used to go to market within seconds. Read blackcap post, he is an ex DB broker employee.
    NZX rules do state you have to ensure an orderly market and cannot place bids offers that are too far removed from market etc. Not set in stone as such but some brokers adhere to these guidelines more strictly than others. Say the bid is 20 cents and offer is 50 cents and last trade was at 22 cents. Most brokers would not execute an order to buy at 50 cents.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by kizame View Post
    I havn't had this but this mornings trade,should have been electronically instant,they do come up with BS excuses,last time I enquired why it took so long for orders to even appear I was told that they had to check my csn no. now common(anz sec)in this digitally enhanced age.
    I am starting to think that what happened to you was more not ruffling FNZC managed clients holdings,I don't know just a thought.
    They do have to check CSN if you are selling to ensure that the shares are there available to sell. But should take no longer than 30 seconds.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    Time for another online broker to appear.
    Like Halifax ?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    NZX rules do state you have to ensure an orderly market and cannot place bids offers that are too far removed from market etc. Not set in stone as such but some brokers adhere to these guidelines more strictly than others. Say the bid is 20 cents and offer is 50 cents and last trade was at 22 cents. Most brokers would not execute an order to buy at 50 cents.
    Yeah, I understand that.
    I am talking about the normal spread, a few cents her or there and a share price over 10 dollars ea. RYM

  10. #50
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    Default DB, Definitely Broken

    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    Time for another online broker to appear.
    Yes, I agree.

  11. #51
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
    NZX rules do state you have to ensure an orderly market and cannot place bids offers that are too far removed from market etc. Not set in stone as such but some brokers adhere to these guidelines more strictly than others. Say the bid is 20 cents and offer is 50 cents and last trade was at 22 cents. Most brokers would not execute an order to buy at 50 cents.
    Best bid $9.62 but broker won't execute a buy order at $9.68 just 6 cents more suggests to me that the wheels have well and truly come off at so called "Direct" Broking. Just 0.6% higher when the share moved in a 32 cent range the previous day...for goodness sake...what they did was actionable and I would have done exactly that if my order didn't get filled at $9.68 or under.

    Not the first time either, the previous day I placed an order for some HLG shares at $4.34 to ensure in the opening match process I got a fill.
    They dialed the order back to $4.30 of their own volition and I didn't get a fill. Some barking ensued later that morning and I demanded they give me a fill at the opening match price of $4.31.
    Sure there was a jump on the opening bid but they had just issued a trading update !
    Last edited by Beagle; 20-02-2019 at 02:35 PM.
    Solomon actually left us with some investment advice about proper diversification in Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.” Proverbs 27:12 "The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty".

  12. #52
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    direct broking, asb just as bad each other. pitiful state of broking and nzx rules in nz. look at the pitiful volumes on such a big news day
    bull
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    They dialed the order back to $4.30 of their own volition and I didn't get a fill. Some barking ensued later that morning and I demanded they give me a fill at the opening match price of $4.31.
    Not wise to get between Beagle and a bowl of HLG.

  14. #54
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    this is very concerning to me. i have had similarly disquieting experiences as the Beagle hasnhadbwith FNZC. They swear they are using discretion to do the best they can but I don’t feel comfortable with it, because i know i am small fry and i know they will always look after the big guys first.

    however, i was told “if you want DMA and instant satisfaction etc, use Direct Broking when we buy them”, which I was considering doing for my active trading, at least. But not if this is how it works.

    In addition, IIRC, the NZX is concerned about the growing % of off-market crossings and if DB orders are sucked into the FNZC pool, that % is going to grow even higher.

    And be in no doubt, a broker loves it when they get both sides of the trade. fees and info.

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    This is all very concerning, thanks for sharing, I really had no idea that they could play god like this. When you add the off-market transactions to this picture...well..do we really have a market at all ? Does anyone know how this compares with the ASX ?

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    The market is changing significantly and the NZX will/should be worried - not that some of their employees seemed concerned last year when I talked to them about it. The FNZ have the breadth of the market now ~ 50% market share (retail, advisory, wealth, insto). FNZ are now a market themselves really. The market that you see displayed by the NZX now is a very opaque looking market. Craigs will hold orders to fill inhouse, For Barrs will do the same as they're both obviously competing with FNZC for flow and so the only broker now showing orders to market in any real fashion is ASB Sec. Also, the NZX looked to install some new broker rules last year around the restriction of crossings. After lobbying from brokers the NZX implemented a watered down version which restricts crossings under $50k in value - this in effect stopped ANZ securities and ASB securities doing crossings as most of their flow is smaller than $50k but FNZC, Craigs and For Barrs just bundle the orders up over time and cross when larger than $50k - hence the slow time to market.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    This is all very concerning, thanks for sharing, I really had no idea that they could play god like this. When you add the off-market transactions to this picture...well..do we really have a market at all ? Does anyone know how this compares with the ASX ?
    The ASX is the Wild West and about as un-orderly as it gets.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ordop View Post
    The market is changing significantly and the NZX will/should be worried - not that some of their employees seemed concerned last year when I talked to them about it. The FNZ have the breadth of the market now ~ 50% market share (retail, advisory, wealth, insto). FNZ are now a market themselves really. The market that you see displayed by the NZX now is a very opaque looking market. Craigs will hold orders to fill inhouse, For Barrs will do the same as they're both obviously competing with FNZC for flow and so the only broker now showing orders to market in any real fashion is ASB Sec. Also, the NZX looked to install some new broker rules last year around the restriction of crossings. After lobbying from brokers the NZX implemented a watered down version which restricts crossings under $50k in value - this in effect stopped ANZ securities and ASB securities doing crossings as most of their flow is smaller than $50k but FNZC, Craigs and For Barrs just bundle the orders up over time and cross when larger than $50k - hence the slow time to market.
    Mm, thanks ordop your post explains the following. I had an order filled with direct broking but no combination in the recent trades column would combine to the number of shares I had purchased. The trade was slow so it is likely it was held up for the reason your outlined.
    Is this allowed by the NZX rules?

  19. #59
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    All my bad experiences have been with ASBSec so far, and I have plenty of examples. Only joined ANZ Sec about Oct last year and cut all ties with ASBSec.

    My worst experience was when ASBSec refused outright to carry out my instruction to purchase a $10k share parcel for a price 0.2c/share higher than the previous day's close, but 0.2c/share lower then the previous days intra-day high.... nothing short of pathetic.

    Direct Broking and ASBSec are as bad as each other by the looks but Direct Broking hasn't let me down yet.

    Just when did these brokering companies stop performing brokerage services to become puppets of the NZX? Rather than looking after their customers, they are now focussed on policing trade activities and seem hell bent on opposing market forces in the interest of 'stability'.
    Last edited by Vaygor1; 21-02-2019 at 01:59 PM.

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    Too often, like now, an unexpected error has happened.

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