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  1. #81
    Reincarnated Panthera Snow Leopard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynot View Post
    Thanks Snow Leopard. I am now a retiree so forgive my senility but I still can't see reference to the div return for the previous years.
    They do not quote the historical dividend returns year by year, just the most recent/current value.

    But as a special from one retiree to another here are the approximate historical values:

    Code:
    Year to:    Div:   EndSP:   MinSP:   MaxSP: Yield:
    31-Mar-16   4.5c   108.0c    94.8c   108.1c   4.2%
    31-Mar 17   6.4c   108.5c   105.3c   119.0c   5.9%
    31-Mar-18   7.3c   107.2c   105.7c   116.3c   7.3%
    31-Mar-19   6.8c   123.6c   106.9c   123.6c   5.5%
    
    Future performance is likely to be different again as DIV follows the irrationality of the New Zealand market in general.
    om mani peme hum

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snow Leopard View Post
    They do not quote the historical dividend returns year by year, just the most recent/current value.

    But as a special from one retiree to another here are the approximate historical values:

    Code:
    Year to:    Div:   EndSP:   MinSP:   MaxSP: Yield:
    31-Mar-16   4.5c   108.0c    94.8c   108.1c   4.2%
    31-Mar 17   6.4c   108.5c   105.3c   119.0c   5.9%
    31-Mar-18   7.3c   107.2c   105.7c   116.3c   7.3%
    31-Mar-19   6.8c   123.6c   106.9c   123.6c   5.5%
    
    Future performance is likely to be different again as DIV follows the irrationality of the New Zealand market in general.


    Cheers, so considering the weight these company's carry we can expect similar returns going forward ?

  3. #83
    Advanced Member Valuegrowth's Avatar
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    I was waiting for a thread like this. Thank you Beagle for opening the thread/ideas and for all others for their valuable ideas. I have few questions. Asset prices have volatility. In some period we find recession, banking crisis and credit crisis and so on. Further all fund managers can’t book profit at the same time. Property and rent prices also have volatility. Not all markets will do well at the same time. Finally not all listed companies will have long term business (there is a risk of going concern for some companies). I would like to find attractive sustainable companies with businesses that I can understand.
    Last edited by Valuegrowth; 19-04-2019 at 06:19 PM.

  4. #84
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    Excuse me for not reading the whole thread but has anyone mentioned owning real estate instead (directly) ? If I was into retirement age, I would look at tax efficiency and since living in NZ for the past 20 years, I find it very hard for the level of risk, to beat owning NZ real estate. I've proposed this question to local financial advisors and put it straight from a tax efficient point of view, why would you ever look to buy NZ equities (which for the most part, focus on dividend payments, instead of tax free capital gain of a rising share price) ?? Sure there's merit for some companies to pay dividends such as utilities, or shares that aren't expected to have any market share growth or reliant on expansion of their business, then yes, dividends makes sense. But when brokerage firms like Macquaries advise their clients or praise about having a dividend payment policy, that's just simply not tax efficient. Both independent financial advisors told me out right that i'm correct. For the level of risk and return, when you factor taxation, you're not gonna beat owning real estate over the long term in NZ. NZ is unique in this situation with the absence of CGT, or where owning multiple residential properties can be sold tax free (after all, a 5 year holding period is not that long).

    Once you look at investing into businesses / equities, then you're involving a whole new level of risk, well beyond what the person in retirement should be. Now if we were talking quality stocks like those in the S&P500, then that's a different story. But then NZ has this silly FIF / FDR tax rule, and what person hold a pension retirement fund that is less than $50K NZD?

  5. #85
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    The trouble with real estate is you have to deal with tenants. FIF/FDR is a breeze in comparison.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    If I was into retirement age, I would look at tax efficiency
    Think you have missed the point for this thread..

    Which I take as to where would you be investing today for your retirement..

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    The trouble with real estate is you have to deal with tenants. FIF/FDR is a breeze in comparison.
    I've looked into the FIF / FDR and it gets really complicated if you hold mixed assets in the portfolio. Such as some Australian shares are exempted from FIF. There's currency exchange rate to factor. To add more complexities, how about 'quick sales' for buying and or selling more than once in the same year? Above all, it's part of the tax compliance for filing.

    https://www.ird.govt.nz/toii/fif/cal...-choosing.html

    Look at page 19 here for quick sale calculations:
    https://www.ird.govt.nz/resources/5/...2f11/ir461.pdf

    and check out the flow chart on page 6:

    vs: the guy that owns the house can easily pay a property manager. That's what i've seen most have done to muscle out the undesirable tenants. This would suit easily for any pensioner or retired person that seeks to enjoy vacations abroad, etc. without the hassles. I've also met many seniors that insist on living in their home and renting out a room as "home stays" which again, the income is tax free.

    Now if I was living back in Canada, then the situation for pensioners is entirely different. They have CGT and complex tax code for owning rental properties or renting a portion of your principal residence home out (ie that % of the house rented is a "change of use" and will have CGT on that % value of the whole home). So in that sense, most seniors have their savings invested in equities or in lower risk bonds. But NZ's sharemarket isn't like that - it's a hell of a lot more riskier than your S&P500 mix.

    Don't take my word for it. Countless of elderly people have told me the past where so and so have lost so much $ in past NZ stock market crashes or some finance company or corporate has fleeced shareholders. Even bond investments such as "Hanover Finance" were effective at vaporising the mom & pop savings they had when they thought 9% pa was a far better rate than what the banks were offering around 7-8% at the time.
    Last edited by SBQ; 19-04-2019 at 09:45 PM.

  8. #88
    Advanced Member Valuegrowth's Avatar
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    SBQ
    People have lost in property market too. There are highly leveraged borrowers in the property market in Australasia. No asset class is 100% safe.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    I've looked into the FIF / FDR and it gets really complicated if you hold mixed assets in the portfolio. Such as some Australian shares are exempted from FIF. There's currency exchange rate to factor. To add more complexities, how about 'quick sales' for buying and or selling more than once in the same year? Above all, it's part of the tax compliance for filing.

    https://www.ird.govt.nz/toii/fif/cal...-choosing.html

    Look at page 19 here for quick sale calculations:
    https://www.ird.govt.nz/resources/5/...2f11/ir461.pdf

    and check out the flow chart on page 6:

    vs: the guy that owns the house can easily pay a property manager. That's what i've seen most have done to muscle out the undesirable tenants. This would suit easily for any pensioner or retired person that seeks to enjoy vacations abroad, etc. without the hassles. I've also met many seniors that insist on living in their home and renting out a room as "home stays" which again, the income is tax free.

    Now if I was living back in Canada. (Reply.. Cough... Cough ) .. Don't take my word for it. Countless of elderly people have told me the past where so and so have lost so much $ in past NZ stock market crashes or some finance company or corporate has fleeced
    We know.... OK ?.

    The very good question was not asking for history...

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynot View Post
    Cheers, so considering the weight these company's carry we can expect similar returns going forward ?
    So you want me to make a prediction about the future?
    OK. Here is my biased opinion which comes complete with a cast iron guarantee to be wrong by the time you read it.
    The shorter the time frame the greater the volatility but assuming you go buy DIV at the next available opportunity:
    You will get 5.5% gross or better annualised dividend over the next 10 years;
    You will also have a 10% plus total capital gain in 10 years time.

    But apparently the only certainities in life are death and taxes.
    om mani peme hum

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