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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by workingdad View Post
    Been out for a while, looking to start investing again when the time is right.

    This post by Rep is bang on. I am in an industry that sees first hand the variations from one cars safety to another. Not all ANCAP 5 star cars are equal when it comes to real world either. We have two newer Volvo's in my family, the family cruiser and a smaller version that the kids will be learning to drive in. Some may think this mad but I have a saying, put your kids into the safest most expensive vehicle you can afford............
    Safest for sure , but why the most expensive ? (which may not turn out to be anywhere near the safest)

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Safest for sure , but why the most expensive ? (which may not turn out to be anywhere near the safest)
    Genetically speaking the safest cars are more expensive but perhaps I could have worded it better.

    The systems in more expensive cars are generally more advanced, two cars may have collision avoidance but to say they are as good as another is a stretch, not all are created equally and the computers and software running them are also not equal, milliseconds makes a difference. Steel is steel right? But not all steel is equal, then thereís boron steel, the Volvoís we have use boron steel in their cars structural protective points, the boron steel in the A, B and C pillars is so strong the fire service jaws of life canít cut through it. Of course this isnít in the crumple zones, itís cabin compartment protective.

    A Volvo went over a large bank landing on its roof, cabin compartment still in tact and that simply wouldnít be the case with many lesser cars. Boron steel isnít cheap and as such adds to the cost of the car. Iím not saying every expensive car is safer but industry leaders in safety with some brands are more so than others, the expensive research and development is also a considerable factor, I think the statistic no one has died in an XC90 is still a thing, it was when we bought one. So, quality systems, quality components and extensive research and development all contribute to improved safety and of course the expense.

    People read a safety rating and donít look any further into it but in reality thereís more to it. Safety ratings take into account many different factors that may not actually protect the occupants of the car being rated. For example the new system coming out is taking safety points off SUVs as they are more likely to cause harm to other smaller vehicles occupants. Not going to count for much when it goes into a tree at 100kmph but penalizing an SUV due to weight and size is another example of the PC gone mad world we are living in.

    Ratings aside, anecdotally, I go to serious road traffic accidents every week in my job and see many different cars. Thereís a select few that have impressed me and no rating will change that, this has had significant influence on the cars we as a family buy and how I drive. Just trying to share that with others cause looking into parents eyes when they learn of the horror of significant impacts on their children touches close to home.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by workingdad View Post
    Genetically speaking the safest cars are more expensive but perhaps I could have worded it better.

    The systems in more expensive cars are generally more advanced, two cars may have collision avoidance but to say they are as good as another is a stretch, not all are created equally and the computers and software running them are also not equal, milliseconds makes a difference. Steel is steel right? But not all steel is equal, then thereís boron steel, the Volvoís we have use boron steel in their cars structural protective points, the boron steel in the A, B and C pillars is so strong the fire service jaws of life canít cut through it. Of course this isnít in the crumple zones, itís cabin compartment protective.

    A Volvo went over a large bank landing on its roof, cabin compartment still in tact and that simply wouldnít be the case with many lesser cars. Boron steel isnít cheap and as such adds to the cost of the car. Iím not saying every expensive car is safer but industry leaders in safety with some brands are more so than others, the expensive research and development is also a considerable factor, I think the statistic no one has died in an XC90 is still a thing, it was when we bought one. So, quality systems, quality components and extensive research and development all contribute to improved safety and of course the expense.

    People read a safety rating and donít look any further into it but in reality thereís more to it. Safety ratings take into account many different factors that may not actually protect the occupants of the car being rated. For example the new system coming out is taking safety points off SUVs as they are more likely to cause harm to other smaller vehicles occupants. Not going to count for much when it goes into a tree at 100kmph but penalizing an SUV due to weight and size is another example of the PC gone mad world we are living in.

    Ratings aside, anecdotally, I go to serious road traffic accidents every week in my job and see many different cars. Thereís a select few that have impressed me and no rating will change that, this has had significant influence on the cars we as a family buy and how I drive. Just trying to share that with others cause looking into parents eyes when they learn of the horror of significant impacts on their children touches close to home.
    Thanks for the insights workingdad, we bought a Golf for our daughter, but frankly even though it has a lot of safety features and a decent rating that we could afford above lots of other cheaper options, I worry constantly about my 19 year old driving. Not about her driving ability, she's very capable and cautious, but about all the other fwits driving that I've come to take for granted and have adapted my own driving style to be constantly aware of and avoid.

  4. #344
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    Yes very int , thanks WD. What other cars would you say are safer like the Volvos? I have googled safest cars a number of times a few years back and never read about the boron/steel detail!!!?.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Can't help wondering how the luxury European car dealers (stealers ?), are doing at the moment ?
    Am a little bit tempted to let this horrible environment grind on for a few months and then masked, eye-weared and gloved up, go and test drive something fancy in the middle of winter and try and drive a real rock bottom priced bargain. Probably being stupid, (that's what having almost everything in cash can do to you), and should leave the Euro stealers to suffer in peace and stick with what I have.
    Could be fun to try to "steal" something really nice though


    Some here are aware I'm involved with a Porscha dealership in the US. The popularity of the SUV product has been handy as we have a three month wait list on stock, with one months SP orders on the water at any one time. We ague terms with them on trading stock all the time as we see different behaviour on the yard vs their market research. We see stock market volatility has a marked influence on forward orders, forward orders slowed markedly around two weeks ago as an example. They argue we keep stock levels rising all the time based on their market research that US buyer confidence is not effected by stock portfolio volatility.

    The typical profile for a lot of our product is a professional in their early 50's with a average wealth portfolio of 3 million. I think the NZ customer profile is way different.
    Last edited by Raz; 12-03-2020 at 05:03 AM.

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Yes very int , thanks WD. What other cars would you say are safer like the Volvos? I have googled safest cars a number of times a few years back and never read about the boron/steel detail!!!?.
    Its a hard one to answer as even within brands there can be some variables although the safety systems generally aren't optional extras and included in even base models but not always.......

    I have seen the Mercs and Audi's do well, Volkswagen and even Toyota aren't too bad either. In reality though a lot of it comes down to mass, some larger cars are still somewhat lighter than you would imagine implying strength variables.

    Smaller cars will always struggle to come off well against larger ones, can't overcome physics even with crumple zones and what age/safety the other vehicle is that is bringing your car to a stop in the impact, hit another newer safe car with good crumple zones and a lot of the forces are distributed and shared, hit an older car that's solid steel and your car is responsible for absorbing more impact, have a great safe car all good, have an average one, well its not as good.

    Example (and no suprises here) but hitting a truck head on is a no win situation, same with hitting a decent tree, they don't move so the impact and deceleration forces are absorbed by the one car not spread across 2 vehicles. Most of the time a lot of accidents aren't true head on dead stop bonnets touching, they usually have someone turn the wheel at the last moment or on a corner and this deflects a fair amount of the impact, cars with active avoidance systems are great in this situation, the fact really is the quicker you are brought to a complete stop the more significant the impact, damage and deceleration forces involved which pushes crumble zones to their limits. Impacts that are square on means occupants are likely to require cutting out but that doesn't mean trapped by the legs, may just mean everything has folded around the protective zone. Impacts that deflect some of the forces result in a bit of it being dissipated. I recall some study's on F1 racing and the 500mm nose cones when they implemented a crumple zone in them and the reduction in forces with just 500mm was pretty impressive.

    Small SUVs and up are better, I know historically they are top heavy and tend to roll easier but stability programs do avoid this have progressed more over the years but its weighing up the pros and cons, if you crash into the back of a truck or side of one there is less likelihood of having the crumple zone of the bonnet go underneath the deck of them which means the A pillar is less likely to take the impact and not many cars can handle large impacts on that area of a car.

    The forces involved in an accident are more than people really understand, even at 50kmph its pretty decent hit. I have seen T Shirts with a melted line where the seatbelt sits against the body purely from the heat/friction of a high speed impact.

    My big bug bear is the ANCAP safety ratings, they are reflective to a large degree but people glance at them to see how safe they will be, dig deeper and see points being deducted due to size, weight, other car and pedestrian safety ect is not my idea of accurately identifying how well occupants of the car are protected. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of trying to protect other cars occupants and pedestrians but some things cant be changed eg size and weight.

    Volvo aren't the only ones using boron steel, some other more premium brands use it and other structural integrity type components.

    My advice, ask the hard questions about safety if looking at cars, stay away from small cars and avoid vans that have no protection with a bonnet, if you want cheap to run look at the new Rav 4 hybrids, if you can afford more go to a safe premium brand, I have nothing to gain from this but we bought two Volvos for a few reasons but safety was at the top of the list, not to say other brands cant measure up but the decision was a well considered one.

  7. #347
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    Great to see you back on the forum workingdad and thank you for your excellent well thought out posts.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  8. #348
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    Thanks mate, didn't think my sabbatical would be as long as it has but its good to be back and will hopefully time a return to the market better than my exit which in hindsight was a tad early haha.

  9. #349
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    Yes thanks WD an extremely important subject seen from your angle on the front line.. To think in my fake hippy days i owned a VW Kombi with zilch frontal protection. Had two very low level off road prangs, no harm , i think tequila was involved.
    Last edited by Joshuatree; 12-03-2020 at 10:23 AM.

  10. #350
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    It has turned into a lovely day in my part of the world and I was going to take my wife out for a meal in our early 1960's open top car that is very definitely based on 1950's technology, but then reading this it seems I am almost certain to die or be seriously maimed! Luckily my daily is a modern Volvo so that increases my chances of at least being around to drive the old jalopy.

    Seriously though, I really hope that alongside this focus on the vehicle safety is an equal focus on their driver skills and you have made sure that your young drivers have done at least some of:
    - A defensive driving course
    - Some advanced driver training (skid pan, car control etc)
    - Driven, or been driven, on race track to understand vehicle dynamics working at the extremes
    - Regularly experience a variety of road conditions and environments not just their A-B commute

    My boys both had the opportunity to get their Class 2 & 4 truck licenses and interestingly I noted a difference to the driving styles, especially their general awareness of what is going on around them after that. Not sure if it was age, experience, volume of km's or the vehicle dynamics involved

  11. #351
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    For sale - One used modified Audi RS3 in "immaculate original condition" lol
    WOW https://www.driven.co.nz/news/watch-...ampaign=topbox
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

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