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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    And me lol.

    Raz - John Andrew Ford and Mazda are part of the AHG group listed in Australia. Have a look at their share price graph and recent commentary about margin pressure. Its anything but a licence to print money. You can buy a demo Mazda 6 Takami, $56,995 retail which is already good value for money (top spec loaded with every conceivable bit of technology...95% of the kit that's on a top spec $200K Euro) for $45K which would solve a lot of problems for me if they handled any good and had any real power...I bet 95% of people would be happy with it though...I'm just a fussy dog. I don't think there's much margin in that and looking at AHG's share price lately I don't think the next annual meeting will be a happy occasion !

    Yes I think Holden will make me wait for quite a while. The dealership support with a good loan car is proving very valuable.

    Be as fussy as you like however in the end you are dealing with cars with limited interested and demand by the public. If they did not have fleet sales they would be dead in the water. Perhaps with the change in fleet purchases some may well be. It may be relatively cheap deal on entry just don't expect much on exit...

  2. #22
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    Interesting, I'd always thought new car franchises were a license to print. Have the margins been hurt by Toyota and their 'no haggle' pricing? Think Rangers are still the biggest seller?

    Would imagine rental car prices would be even better than fleet, when take into account worldwide volume with the majors.

  3. #23
    Hunting for more dog food Beagle's Avatar
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    Honda as you guys know has had no haggle same pricing for everyone for nearly 20 years now. Now that Toyota have joined in, (although slightly different as big fleets still get to haggle..they took notes that Honda lost a lot of rental car business) I would say this no haggle thing now has genuine momentum. Toyota's pricing for example makes Holden retail pricing look ridiculous.

    Agreed Raz, does anyone expect much for their car these days after a few years use ? 50% retailed value after 3 years used to be the general benchmark but I think many customers are keeping their cars longer now, about 5 years and only seeing ~ 30% retained value at the end.
    Last edited by Beagle; 07-02-2019 at 09:35 AM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  4. #24
    Hunting for more dog food Beagle's Avatar
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    For some "strange reason" one of my Mum's favourite sayings keeps springing to mind, write this one down if you haven't heard it before !
    "The bitter taste of poor quality lingers long after the thrill of a bargain"
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    For some "strange reason" one of my Mum's favourite sayings keeps springing to mind, write this one down if you haven't heard it before !
    "The bitter taste of poor quality lingers long after the thrill of a bargain"
    My old mans was "petrol is the cheapest thing you'll put into a car"

  6. #26
    Senior Member airedale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    For some "strange reason" one of my Mum's favourite sayings keeps springing to mind, write this one down if you haven't heard it before !
    "The bitter taste of poor quality lingers long after the thrill of a bargain"
    Fred Ambler who had a shirt factory in Auckland, his motto was "the quality remains long after the price has been forgotten"

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by airedale View Post
    Fred Ambler who had a shirt factory in Auckland, his motto was "the quality remains long after the price has been forgotten"
    Amidst the many silly statements in the same vein, 'A rich man can afford the best - a poor man can afford nothing else.'

  8. #28
    Hunting for more dog food Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by airedale View Post
    Fred Ambler who had a shirt factory in Auckland, his motto was "the quality remains long after the price has been forgotten"
    I like that one
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  9. #29
    Hunting for more dog food Beagle's Avatar
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    Reiterated by email that I want a refund ASAP for that car. Response
    Once I get the paperwork from the dealership I can put your request forward.
    I will keep you posted throughout.
    One wonders what she has been doing since she called last Friday, probably next to nothing.
    "Throughout" in anyone's language suggests this is going to be "quite a process" that will take quite some time.
    I am going to put some timeline around this. End of the month. If no resolution by then I will begin proceedings through the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal.
    I have very little confidence in Holden managements impartiality so for my own peace of mind I need to have a clearly defined plan to progress this my end after giving them a more than reasonable length of time to make a decision. I feel better already having a defined plan of action.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Reiterated by email that I want a refund ASAP for that car. Response


    One wonders what she has been doing since she called last Friday, probably next to nothing.
    "Throughout" in anyone's language suggests this is going to be "quite a process" that will take quite some time.
    I am going to put some timeline around this. End of the month. If no resolution by then I will begin proceedings through the Motor Vehicle Disputes Tribunal.
    I have very little confidence in Holden managements impartiality so for my own peace of mind I need to have a clearly defined plan to progress this my end after giving them a more than reasonable length of time to make a decision. I feel better already having a defined plan of action.
    Rather than "I can" i'd prefer to see a "I will"........

  11. #31
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    Out of curiosity Beagle....what revs were you doing when the engine seized ?
    Will the computer have a record of how the engine has been "used" ?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    Out of curiosity Beagle....what revs were you doing when the engine seized ?
    Will the computer have a record of how the engine has been "used" ?
    Used, or abused. Nah just joking, folks say Beagle drives like a Nana but loves the throaty roar of a big engine exhaust while his ample butt is warmed by the heated seats, his ego massaged by self-impressed perceptions of good handling, imagination soothed by the flashing lights and gizmos of a wanna-be Euro car, and his floppy ears soothed by Bose delivered music.

    Lol. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Still feel bad for Beagle, his brand new pride and joy seized! Like when did you ever hear about a modern saloon car seizing? Surely a one of lemon.

  13. #33
    Hunting for more dog food Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    Out of curiosity Beagle....what revs were you doing when the engine seized ?
    Will the computer have a record of how the engine has been "used" ?
    The amount of computer processing power in modern cars is pretty amazing now so I am pretty sure the cars ECU will have stored data on how I drove it which is why I am sure they will ship the engine back to Australia for full diagnosis and try and pin this on me. In the dog's younger days I might have had something to worry about, (its supposed to bounce off the red line all the time isn't it especially when running in lol) but I drove it fairly conservatively as per the manual which said basically to do that for the first 1000 km's. 1 near full throttle overtake maneuver was all I can recall doing.
    Coming home driving normally the engine started really rough idling. I suspected a blocked injector so tried driving it back to the dealer to put on his diagnostic machine and didn't make it there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Used, or abused. Nah just joking, folks say Beagle drives like a Nana but loves the throaty roar of a big engine exhaust while his ample butt is warmed by the heated seats, his ego massaged by self-impressed perceptions of good handling, imagination soothed by the flashing lights and gizmos of a wanna-be Euro car, and his floppy ears soothed by Bose delivered music.

    Lol. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Still feel bad for Beagle, his brand new pride and joy seized! Like when did you ever hear about a modern saloon car seizing? Surely a one of lemon.
    LOL too funny. Now I have formally let Holden know I want a refund, (rather than a replacement car) I am worried that dealership support, (the loan car) will no longer be made available. Hmmmm….that'll really annoy the dog....its never a good idea to demand a Beagle give his food or toys back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tuBqRHJ-mo She's lucky she kept her hand lol
    Last edited by Beagle; 07-02-2019 at 07:35 PM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  14. #34
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    Unfortunately Holden has a track record of not complying with Consumer Protection Law in Australia and lawyering up with hush clauses when they do have to settle up.

    https://www.accc.gov.au/media-releas...mer-guarantees

    Essentially Holden in Oz wasn’t complying with the law and “misrepresented to some consumers that it had discretion to decide whether the vehicle owner would be offered a refund, repair or replacement for a car with a manufacturing fault, and that any remedy was a goodwill gesture,”

    Which is essentially they gave their customers the run around and bull****ted about their rights to a refund, replacement or repair as being at their discretion not a simple case of complying with the law which is basically the same there as it is here in that you can’t contract out of the basic consumer rights.

    It shouldn’t be a case of having to go to Australia to “approve”, it is a fairly simple piece of New Zealand consumer legislation that says a consumer must have an item of merchantable quality and fit for purpose. Your Calais is neither as it can’t be driven and replacing the engine diminishes the value for the reasons I’ve mentioned for your brand new car to have an engine that wasn’t the one it left the Peugeot owned factory in Russelheim, Germany with.

    You are being reasonable - the other thing to do before you head off to MVDT is to consider upping the stakes a bit for GM-H by suggesting you might go to the a current affairs show. Don’t threaten one from the printed press (basically none of the newspaper journos would want to get offside with GM lest they miss out on their Oz and Europe junkets or the advertising dollars) but having a story about you and your broken engine top of the line Calais and being given the runaround by GMH is going to tear up any remaining goodwill in the Commodore nameplate as a new car.
    Last edited by Rep; 07-02-2019 at 09:21 PM.

  15. #35
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    PS I’ll send you a note about my Humble Opinion on reviews via PM over the weekend

  16. #36
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    My near new chariot of choice (tow wagon) to keep wife and horse happy, is a 2016 Mitsubishi Pajero Sport VRX. Replaced mitsi challenger which we had for 21 years. Serviced by me at 5000 intervals over that time and never going into workshop except for pump rebuild. The point I am getting to is new wheels had service at dealership...oil different grade from what handbook says and 8.5L of oil when it only says 7.3L with filter and cooler.....mine must have a larger sump!!

  17. #37
    Hunting for more dog food Beagle's Avatar
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    Thanks Rep and others, really appreciate your ongoing advice and support.

    Unfortunately the application or not of the Consumer Guarantees Act in my circumstances is uncertain and not something I want to go into in any great depth on the forum.
    Is has to do with this. http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p...DLM312859.html Section 43 2A is something that the Motor vehicle disputes tribunal will need to make a determination upon. The vehicle was never used for business because it was purchased after I had closed down my practice for the Christmas break, 20 December, and the engine seized on 11 January 2019 while I was still on holidays.
    This will probably be something that the MVDT rule on in due course. I am NOT expecting Holden will play fair or nice.

    I am considering lodging proceedings with MVDT without further delay as I have very little confidence that Holden's management in Australia will take a reasonable approach. The one and only thing holding me back from immediately filing papers is the local dealerships ongoing support with a decent loan car, a current model ZB Commodore with a 2.0 liter turbo engine. That car is endearing itself to me with its sweet willing turbo engine and is 200 kg's lighter than my Calais so has better handling.

    We used to run three cars at the Beagle clan but in mid 2017 went down to 2 so the Beagles will be seriously inconvenienced if the dealership withdraws support because Mrs Beagle doesn't like to share and likes her mobility to be completely independent.

    As long as this loan car support continues there is no financial pain or material inconvenience in waiting to see what Holden decide to do about this bloody mess of their own volition but as I eluded to yesterday for my own peace of mind I need to have some plan around how long I can leave it with them before taking my own action.
    I think the end of February gives them sufficient time to make up their minds what they will do. and my assessment is any longer I would consider they are deliberately being obstructive and if that's the case its time to get on with things at the MVDT.

    I am certain that failed engine will be shipped back to Australia to be stripped, inspected and its ECU read and if they think they can pin this on me they will try and do exactly that. As soon as I get any whiff of that happening or the dealer wants the loan car back or its 28 February, (whichever comes first) I'm lodging the documents with the MVDT. Good idea about media but I am publicity shy so will go the MVDT route if necessary.

    The loan car's rego runs out on 27 February and its due a service. I doubt I will see it back when I take it in there for same on due date. I need to prepare for a rental car in March.

    Just as an interesting aside I did some research on MVDT cases with that dealership, (can search MVDT cases by dealership name). Their name did not come up much at all but in one case where it did a few years ago the vehicle was owned by a business. In the decision it was noted the dealership did not contest whether the Consumer Guarantees Act applied or not because they felt it was unfair to do so...something I find as being somewhat hopeful. The dealership has been owned by the same family since well before that decision and still is, so there is some grounds for hope they won't contest CGA application and even if they do that the Tribunal will adjudicate in my favour.

    No question if the CGA applies I am entitled to a full refund for such a major failure notwithstanding anything Holden's Australian management in their "infinite wisdom" decide. I know they play underarm cricket so I'm not expecting a powder puff slow delivery bouncing nicely just outside the off stump.

    Definition of a what is a business and what is a consumer is here http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/p...DLM311058.html
    These are goods that are normally consumed for household / domestic use. Its a car not a truck or ute and they got my company name wrong in the sale and purchase agreement so the contract could be voidable anyway but may be enforceable under the Contractual mistakes Act as a simple mistake ?

    Its about as clear as mud and I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on lawyers bills...might as well pay the $50 and let the MVDT adjudicate on it...almost certain that's where this bloody mess is headed. Asking Holden Australia to rule fairly on this is analogous, (if you could talk to fish) to asking a shark how to swim lol
    Last edited by Beagle; 08-02-2019 at 10:04 AM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Thanks Rep, really appreciate your ongoing assistance.
    Unfortunately the application or not of the Consumer Guarantees Act in my circumstances is uncertain and not something I want to go into on the forum..
    Ah, that will be some tricky trickster purchase in a Trust or company name for nefarious tax purposes that accountants are renowned for. You know they can track your Cayman Island accounts now.

  19. #39
    Hunting for more dog food Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Ah, that will be some tricky trickster purchase in a Trust or company name for nefarious tax purposes that accountants are renowned for. You know they can track your Cayman Island accounts now.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  20. #40
    Hunting for more dog food Beagle's Avatar
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    Default Dizzy Dog

    Its official I am now completly dizzy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUV1LJKYAUc

    Just had a call from the dealer. Confusing stuff because I thought this was all being handled out of Holden Customer care in Australia.
    They are working with the general manager of Holden N.Z. and it could be that they will supply me a brand new replacement car, (same colour) AND an extended warranty to help give me peace of mind. We are talking 5 years instead of the usual 3.

    1. Awaiting Holden N.Z. GM's written confirmation. I could have it all settled late next week with the brand new replacement car and special extended warranty.

    2. On the other hand fighting to get my cash back will probably be (in my estimate a 3 month gruelling process) and I am already exhausted from not sleeping properly...and this will be a very, very long and tough grind with an uncertain outcome as I can't be sure the Consumer Guarantees Act applies as I bought this car through my company.

    At issue is that even if I do get my $53K back there is no new or even demo vehicle available that I think is as good on the N.Z. market with that level of specification not even close to being as good in my opinion. So option 2 isn't really a win per se...its just means I end up in due course after a LOT of stress buying an inferior something else and although I get more peace of mind, it will be desperately needed after such a gruelling process.... or I ante-up and throw heaps more cash at this and get something better which is not really a win either because if I wanted to do that I would have done it in the first place.

    I am seriously thinking about rolling the dice on option 1. Life is short, (the stress level's on route 2 are very high and over a protracted period of time with an uncertain outcome) and the odds on another dud are probably very, very low.

    Thoughts ?
    Dizzy Beagle
    Last edited by Beagle; 08-02-2019 at 03:05 PM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

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