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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Inadequate supply of affordable housing to cope with population growth has meant that even the landlords with cold and damp houses will get desperate tenants, who have little money after rent to afford heating....
    I posted above about responsibility for 'cold, damp housing'. If you check out the Tenancy Services website you will see a long list of ways tenants can and should mitigate these issues and resulting mould.

    If tenants cannot afford heating, or homes are not 'affordable' (whatever that means), how is that the landlord's problem?

    Anyway, landlords are no longer buying in anything like numbers of 2 or 3 years ago. See Reserve Bank stats report C31. If they don't buy, who will? And how many developments will be canned if there are not enough buyers?

  2. #62
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    Theory tells us that a lack of buying from landlords will see lower property prices and owner occupiers eventually entering the market in greater numbers. Let's see what happens in practice.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by macduffy View Post
    Theory tells us that a lack of buying from landlords will see lower property prices and owner occupiers eventually entering the market in greater numbers. Let's see what happens in practice.
    The problem with the theory is that little word 'eventually'. Construction can be a fragile business as we saw in the GFC and more recently with several high profile collapses and major issues.

    Developers need buyers, or Kiwibuild underwrites. The demand for Kiwibuild is looking weak.

  4. #64
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    Some potential investors may have been spooked by the possibility for a general CGT or moreover a targeted CGT on investor property. With that now dismissed by Notaxcinda, some may now enter the market?

    Add to that the continuing hollowing out of the NZ share market and KiwiSaver with little incentive for people to accumulate sizeable balances, then I think in the long-term investor residential real estate will continue its appeal in NZ, with the consequence that owner-occupiers will continue to be priced out of the market as a % of total households. That is unless KiwiSaver is radically overhauled or the government introduces other targeted interventions.

    It seems to me that The large-scale building industry and the consent process is sluggish, expensive and in a mess so that land prices will remain at a premium and new builds will fail to meet needs for some time.
    Last edited by Bjauck; 22-04-2019 at 03:13 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Some potential investors may have been spooked by the possibility for a general CGT or moreover a targeted CGT on investor property. With that now dismissed by Notaxcinda, some may now enter the market?....
    We will have to wait and see, but actually CGT is the least of the issues turning investors away from the rental market. What will encourage some to stay in the sector are shortages in many locations meaning they can raise rents and pick the best tenants.

    March 2019 2 of our landlord clients between them sold and settled on 6 rentals. Very happily.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    SBQ.
    I am not sure if I understand correctly but are you suggesting that Kiwis should Shoe-horn the family into a one bedroom apartment because that happens for the residents of unspecified international cities?


    I'm implying that times have changed. NZ, particularly Auckland, is a growing city and just like any decent size city, the luxury of detached housing and large yards is not longer a right. (just how it was in other major cities around the world). You know there are PLENTY of other places around NZ where the minimum wage worker can live. The reason why these people are complaining is they've become too complacent and feel it's their right to maintain what they've had before.

    Does that that mean we should have a CGT because that is what happens overseas?

    Should we boost security of tenure for the tenant to the level in some other countries? If the landlord wants the flat for his family member, then that shouldn’t happen because it is already rented to a good tenant who does not want to leave.

    So the folk who earn untaxed capital gains from their rental investments should be entitled to this untaxed return, even if this in effect means that their demand for investor housing means they out-bid many families from being able to afford a first home? Is this another example of an entitlement that happens to benefit middle-class baby-boomers in particular?

    So the exceptional tax and other advantages of home ownership should increasingly be affordable for fewer families?


    In order to do CGT right, NZ needs to implement a fully comprehensive tax structure like how it's done in Australia and Canada or the US. I think Jacinda Ardern realised the complexities involved when introducing CGT, and that the current way of NZ taxation already, prides on simplifying the tax code. Also don't forget, i've mentioned many times that, should NZ go down this path of overly complex tax codes? What would the repercussions be? (enough to put the country in a major recession and lose the election?)

    I know you're trying to say how bad things are for the poor tenant. IMO, it's not bad and as mentioned before, the NZ Tenant's Tribunal has a formal process which is mostly biased towards the tenant.

    So we can do things the “kiwi way” as far as taxes are concerned for asset owners yet first home buyers and renters must settle for residences that are fit for the conditions as in densely populated overseas cities. Only the wealthier can enjoy kiwi exceptionalism?


    Again, no one is holding a gun to these tenants to say they should be staying in Auckland. In a lot of cases I see it's many that have made wrong financial decisions, or have drug or gambling problems, or even simply can't manage their finances well ; and because of this, they feel they've been disadvantaged by not being able to get into their 1st home.

    I also say give it time. With the ban on foreign residents buying NZ residential homes, this will certainly wipe off a fair share of the housing demand. It's happening in Sydney, it's happening in Vancouver.

  7. #67
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    SBQ
    People are complaining on all sides expecting to maintain the old kiwi-lifestyle. Whether they be investors wanting to keep their gains untaxed or first home owners wanting to have a bit of garden with their residence.

    Sure a lack of planning for accommodation for population growth has added to booming land prices. The kiwi dream for first home buyers may have partly remained if new Auckland suburbs had been planned to accommodate theses new NZers. Instead of which we have rushed building at expensive rates with expensive land. With builders who cut corners and go bust because they under-cut one another too much.

    In Auckland it is often young doctors, teachers, nurses etc who have now also been priced out of getting a first home. People who may be don’t have wealthy families, with student debt who have been studying and not gambling and drinking (lol). Auckland needs workers and young professionals despite not having planned to enable them to have good secure affordable accommodation.

    Ireland is a country of similar population to NZ. They have a CGT. Establishing a new tax with thresholds and allowances will be temporarily disruptive with ongoing administrative burden. It was disruptive with income tax, rates, GST, FIF etc.

    Every group can claim exceptionalism. It is just that the entitled property investors have political clout.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    We will have to wait and see, but actually CGT is the least of the issues turning investors away from the rental market. What will encourage some to stay in the sector are shortages in many locations meaning they can raise rents and pick the best tenants.

    March 2019 2 of our landlord clients between them sold and settled on 6 rentals. Very happily.
    It makes a good investment - correctly picking an up-and-coming area with limited possibility to expand.

    Who bought the landlord clients properties? Owner occupiers?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    ... Who bought the landlord clients properties? Owner occupiers?
    No idea who will live in these 6, but what we do know is the Reserve Bank numbers on which groups are doing the new bank lending. And first home buyers are on a gentle upward trend, as are other owner occupiers. Property investors, the opposite and if taken from mid 2016 now more than two thirds down to Feb 2019. That is thousands fewer 'new' rentals each month, not sufficiently offset by owner occupiers. New to the sector, not necessarily new builds.

    That impacts renters, rents, developers, construction firms, social and emergency housing costs to taxpayers, and the housing market in general.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    No idea who will live in these 6, but what we do know is the Reserve Bank numbers on which groups are doing the new bank lending. And first home buyers are on a gentle upward trend, as are other owner occupiers. Property investors, the opposite and if taken from mid 2016 now more than two thirds down to Feb 2019. That is thousands fewer 'new' rentals each month, not sufficiently offset by owner occupiers. New to the sector, not necessarily new builds.

    That impacts renters, rents, developers, construction firms, social and emergency housing costs to taxpayers, and the housing market in general.
    In a more struggling market there has been a growth in activity from first home buyers. After years of pent up demand from owner occupiers, lenders now see them as a part of the market to exploit. First home buyers are taking on even more debt to buy homes which have had years of exception growth in prices behind them.

    The multiples of income needed to buy these homes have mushroomed. There is a greater risk of being stuck with negative equity buying now at the top of once-in-a-generation boom in prices. The residential property investors have already had the good pickings from their untaxed capital gains?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/...ectid=12216697

  11. #71
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    https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/30...-anytime-soon/

    I wonder why she backed down so easily / completely on CGT. Maybe there are some other ideas under consideration ?
    Last edited by RTM; 02-05-2019 at 09:03 AM. Reason: Typo

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTM View Post
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/30...-anytime-soon/

    I wonder why she backed down so easily / completely on CGT. Maybe there are some other ideas under consideration ?
    I'm sure there are other considerations. No point introducing a capital gains tax when your biggest property markets (Auck and Christchurch) are going backwards. Govt would end up paying out more than it received.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    I'm sure there are other considerations. No point introducing a capital gains tax when your biggest property markets (Auck and Christchurch) are going backwards. Govt would end up paying out more than it received.
    Only if there was provision for capital losses, which there almost certainly wasn't going to be. Very fair!.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    Only if there was provision for capital losses, which there almost certainly wasn't going to be. Very fair!.
    Losses were recommended by the TWG "recommends including gains and most losses from all types of land and improvements (except the family home), shares, intangible property and business assets."

  15. #75
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    I thunk losses would only be carried forward to apply against future gains.

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