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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by tga_trader View Post
    And that's my biggest problem with it. They've set the age limit at 20, and then have admitted that people of this age can be harmed by using it.
    Set the age at 25 and I would vote yes any day. But voting to allow the sale of a product, that is potentially damaging to the people buying it...I'm not sold yet.

    So go with decriminalisation rather than full legalisation, which I woul've through was a good steeping stone / trial before fully commiting.

    And that's my main thoughts for the positives.

    As someone who isn't, and hasn't ever been, a user, I am completely impartial as I have no reason to want it made available. For me it's purely a calculation of will this be a positive or negative for society overall.
    A few more points by Professor Poulton, one of the authors of the report titled - "Patterns of recreational cannabis use in Aotearoa - New Zealand and their consequences: evidence to inform voters in the 2020 referendum" - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...eedAccess=true


    No matter how people chose to vote, the message needed to be clear that adolescents should avoid cannabis, Poulton said.


    However, the risk of developing psychosis disappeared for those who tried cannabis when they were aged over 18, so Poulton said the proposed legal age of 20 was appropriate.
    Poulton said if cannabis was legalised, it would make it easier to teach high school students about the risks.
    "You remove the stigmatising, quite frightening prospect from this scenario and all of a sudden it's far more legitimate and effective to be talking about the risks of cannabis use, just like we educate about tobacco and alcohol misuse."
    People might also feel more comfortable seeking help if cannabis caused problems in their lives, he said.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    Sounds too good to be true .
    Unfortunately making more available could increase its use and more people will become addicted and start to use it daily.
    Smoking weed increases other health risks including cancer and heart disease
    While there may be some good and bad, benefits in smoking cannabis, there is also the social cost, such as our health system, in particular mental health, which appears to be underfunded, and over worked. And of course our police, drugs such as cannabis have always been associated with crime, probable little will change if cannabis is legalised.

  3. #103
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    "always associated with crime" . Because its illegal?.Other wise that comment is plain false.
    Last edited by Joshuatree; 25-06-2020 at 11:54 AM.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    "always associated with crime" . Because its illegal?.Other wise that comment is plain false.

    I donít believe by legalising cannabis, will totally remove the criminal element, there is always going to illegal growers, cultivating more plants than permitted, dealers, hocking off their surplus, thieving other peoples crop/s, taking a few heads or even the entire plant/s because itís more potent than their own. Breaking and entering to get the plants inside the home or hothouse. Under age users, supplying minors, driving under the influence, this will become a major issue, particular for the young folk, as they will have 24/7 access to it.the list goes on.....

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by waikare View Post
    I don’t believe by legalising cannabis, will totally remove the criminal element, there is always going to illegal growers, cultivating more plants than permitted, dealers, hocking off their surplus, thieving other peoples crop/s, taking a few heads or even the entire plant/s because it’s more potent than their own. Breaking and entering to get the plants inside the home or hothouse. Under age users, supplying minors, driving under the influence, this will become a major issue, particular for the young folk, as they will have 24/7 access to it.the list goes on.....
    No evidence the number of users will increase, most young drug users seem to prefer more artificially produced highs.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by waikare View Post
    While there may be some good and bad, benefits in smoking cannabis, there is also the social cost, such as our health system, in particular mental health, which appears to be underfunded, and over worked. And of course our police, drugs such as cannabis have always been associated with crime, probable little will change if cannabis is legalised.
    Addictions are about managing your feelings Ė drowning our sorrows, getting Dutch courage. If you have a tendency towards addiction you will find something, cannabis, alcohol, cigarettes, gaming, workaholic, comfort food to help you cope. Even worry and anger can be addictive because they are mind altering. You can also alter your mind in a positive way with meditation, and with exercise which gives some people a high or buzz.
    So for me the mental health issues exist already and cannabis is just one way of coping. Which comes first? For me it is not cannabis leading to addiction, the underlying mental health issues are already there.

  7. #107
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    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12343541
    A growing majority of New Zealanders support legalising cannabis for personal use, according to a new poll just three months from a national referendum.

    It found 56 per cent of respondents plan to vote for legalising cannabis for personal use on September 19.
    Support for legalising cannabis also contrasted sharply according to political allegiance with National voters by far the least in favour, at just 31 per cent.
    The age group most in favour of legalising cannabis was 25-34 years at 72 per cent.
    The least in favour were those over 75 years of whom only 27 per cent supported the bill.

    Green MP Chloe Swarbrick said "It's become evident that those campaigning for maintaining criminal prohibition are more focused on moralising than actually solving any problems.
    "Evidence is evidence. The evidence shows and the experts agree that the Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill will increase community wellbeing and reduce harm."

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by moka View Post
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/a...ectid=12343541
    A growing majority of New Zealanders support legalising cannabis for personal use, according to a new poll just three months from a national referendum.

    It found 56 per cent of respondents plan to vote for legalising cannabis for personal use on September 19.
    Support for legalising cannabis also contrasted sharply according to political allegiance with National voters by far the least in favour, at just 31 per cent.
    The age group most in favour of legalising cannabis was 25-34 years at 72 per cent.
    The least in favour were those over 75 years of whom only 27 per cent supported the bill.

    Green MP Chloe Swarbrick said "It's become evident that those campaigning for maintaining criminal prohibition are more focused on moralising than actually solving any problems.
    "Evidence is evidence. The evidence shows and the experts agree that the Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill will increase community wellbeing and reduce harm."
    These old people voting to stop others doing something is quite annoying, they going to be dead soon anyway. Same thing happened with brexit. We need the euthanasia vote to pass, shame they both at the same time, if we had it already, might be a few less no votes. (Joke)

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratkin View Post
    These old people voting to stop others doing something is quite annoying, they going to be dead soon anyway. Same thing happened with brexit. We need the euthanasia vote to pass, shame they both at the same time, if we had it already, might be a few less no votes. (Joke)
    My guess is that majority the 27% of the 75 years plus who are in favour, believe that a "yes vote" includes medical cannabis, which is has already been legalised. The coming vote is only for personal use.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by waikare View Post
    My guess is that majority the 27% of the 75 years plus who are in favour, believe that a "yes vote" includes medical cannabis, which is has already been legalised. The coming vote is only for personal use.
    Ya what? Sgt Pepper. Rolling Stones, Kinks, Led Zeppelin, Frank Zappa, Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, - all sixties.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by waikare View Post
    My guess is that majority the 27% of the 75 years plus who are in favour, believe that a "yes vote" includes medical cannabis, which is has already been legalised. The coming vote is only for personal use.
    I think there is confusion too (maybe in younger age groups too?) The 80 year old I have asked in my family is supporting it, because she thinks a "Yes" would enable medical cannabis use for arthritis.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by ratkin View Post
    These old people voting to stop others doing something is quite annoying, they going to be dead soon anyway. Same thing happened with brexit. We need the euthanasia vote to pass, shame they both at the same time, if we had it already, might be a few less no votes. (Joke)
    You are conflating a lot of different themes there!
    Young adults (who tend not to vote in the same proportions as old people) have always had to live with the consequence of decisions made by the elders. Whether it is as cannon fodder in wars or economic and social consequence as a result of Brexit, Covid regulations etc.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by waikare View Post
    I don’t believe by legalising cannabis, will totally remove the criminal element, there is always going to illegal growers, cultivating more plants than permitted, dealers, hocking off their surplus, thieving other peoples crop/s, taking a few heads or even the entire plant/s because it’s more potent than their own. Breaking and entering to get the plants inside the home or hothouse. Under age users, supplying minors, driving under the influence, this will become a major issue, particular for the young folk, as they will have 24/7 access to it.the list goes on.....
    I believe the opposite will happen and that it will become a MINOR issue because people can grow their own. Indoors they can do 3 crops a year and outdoors two good female plants would provide most with their years supply. You are describing what happens when dope is illegal . Dope is called weed for a good reason, easy to grow.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    I believe the opposite will happen and that it will become a MINOR issue because people can grow their own. Indoors they can do 3 crops a year and outdoors two good female plants would provide most with their years supply. You are describing what happens when dope is illegal . Dope is called weed for a good reason, easy to grow.
    Is it Four plants per person or Four per household?
    Like you say with a good hydroponic system it is a pretty generous allowance as can have quite a few harvests in the course of a year. 12 to 16 plants per year. If you can also grow them for other people in the household then could be growing 50 plus per year

  15. #115
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    4 per household i think.
    Good article in NZ herald.



    "The proposal for New Zealand is most similar to the existing framework in Canada, she said, where frequent usage has only increased for those aged 65 and over.()
    "The fact there hasn't been major changes for youth use or at-risk groups is promising. The over 65s are the least at risk. The younger you start to use, the more risk."
    She said the panel didn't look at how much money could be redirected from enforcement to health services.
    But there were few such services for cannabis-related harm, and few people seek them out.
    "It's absolutely clear it's much easier to provide health and social support for
    legal drugs than illegal ones."

    Legal cannabis has potential to reduce harm, but many unknowns: PM's chief science adviser

  16. #116
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    Link to an unbiased report from the Chief Science Advisor to summarise the evidence for the harms and benefits of legalised cannabis. If you are going to vote on it base your decision on the most up to date info relevant to NZer's.

    https://www.pmcsa.ac.nz/topics/canna...TNAXdRBnxxGBgk

  17. #117
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    Thanks toucan for the full report.Both the above unbiased

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    I believe the opposite will happen and that it will become a MINOR issue because people can grow their own. Indoors they can do 3 crops a year and outdoors two good female plants would provide most with their years supply. You are describing what happens when dope is illegal . Dope is called weed for a good reason, easy to grow.
    Thanks for that information that weed is easy to grow. The obvious gets lost in the morality arguments.
    Some of the older people who are in favour of cannabis reform will want to grow it for their use including medicinal use. Lots of keen gardeners amongst the seniors. And yes some retired people would have been cannabis users back when they were younger and out partying. I have never used it, only inhaled second-hand smoke but I read about plenty of people with serious health/pain problems who swear by it. I would probably try it out myself if it was legal.

  19. #119
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    The panel says that harm exists regardless of its legal status, and legalisation has "the potential to undercut the illegal market for cannabis, help reduce cannabis-related harm through regulated product safety, better facilitate intervention and treatment services, and separate access to cannabis from the illegal market for more harmful drugs".
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/...ectid=12345798

  20. #120
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    It will be interesting what happened to the crime rate in Canada. maybe not now but in a couple of years...

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