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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Many continental Europeans have a more sensible attitude to alcohol too.

    Tobacco and Alcohol are legal and they have many chronic users to the cost of us all. Why would Mary Jane be any different?

    What has Brexit got to do with it? The fault there was not with democracy or the electorate but with the UK Conservative government and parliament in allowing such an ill-prepared referendum without an implementation plan. The supposed elite were ignorant.
    Tobacco and alcohol are both killers and alcohol violence inducing to many.Look at our family violence problem alot of it is fuelled by alcohol excess.

    Marijuana is neither of the above, its peaceful. It stimulates discussion and creativity and relaxation and reduces pain , spasms etc.. It is used all through our country by every type of person , est 350,000 casual users and has been for a long time, smoked or eaten etc.

    "The key is to decide whether this law would create more use or not. The verdict from Canada is that it had not created more use but we need to remember cannabis use is already very prevalent here."

    Police concerns over cannabis

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrewd Crude View Post
    Joshua,
    No they dont buy it to last a certsin time...
    You would find many if not most people would buy small amounts of cigs but the way its marketed and packaged the user is locked into 30grams and 50grams and 20 cigs at once ..
    Why not 5 cig or 5 grams at once?...
    Because its all designed to keep the smoker smoking !
    Thanks for your opinion, im not a smoker. To me its practical that one would buy enough to last a while so one doesn't have to drive in town to the cannabis shop to top up all the time. Maybe the final amount allowed will be less say 7 gm , that should be ok for most ;just like buying a greggs packet of oregano or nutmeg for the pantry

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Tobacco and alcohol are both killers and alcohol violence inducing to many.Look at our family violence problem alot of it is fuelled by alcohol excess.

    Marijuana is neither of the above, its peaceful. It stimulates discussion and creativity and relaxation and reduces pain , spasms etc.. It is used all through our country by every type of person , est 350,000 casual users and has been for a long time, smoked or eaten etc.

    "The key is to decide whether this law would create more use or not. The verdict from Canada is that it had not created more use but we need to remember cannabis use is already very prevalent here."

    Police concerns over cannabis
    Disagree. Marijuana users can be stimulated "out of their mind", full of paranoia doing irrational things. Like those drunk on alcohol, prone to accidents and irrationality. Hooked on high users can blow their budgets on chasing the next drunken session.

    I have No disagreement on the prescribed medicinal use.

  4. #44
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    Benefits of legalization:

    Medical use
    Decriminalizing hundreds of thousands of current users
    Control over sales
    Remove the necessity for users to deal with drug dealers
    Saving funds on police and judicial systems dealing with weed related "crimes"
    Reducing number of prisoners/"criminals" in weed related "crimes"
    Taxing weed sales probably as hard as cigarettes

    Cons:
    might increase mental issues in some people, same as alcohol and other drugs
    Number of users might or might not increase
    Need for weed tests for drivers and employees

    Feel free to add anything that should be on the list
    Last edited by peetter; 06-12-2019 at 10:37 AM.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by peetter View Post
    Benefits of legalization:

    Medical use
    Decriminalizing hundreds of thousands of current users
    Control over sales
    Remove the necessity for users to deal with drug dealers
    Saving funds on police and judicial systems dealing with weed related "crimes"
    Reducing number of prisoners/"criminals" in weed related "crimes"
    Taxing weed sales probably as hard as cigarettes

    Cons:
    might increase mental issues in some people, same as alcohol and other drugs
    Number of users might or might not increase
    Need for weed tests for drivers and employees

    Feel free to add anything that should be on the list


    'Remove the necessity for users to deal with drug dealers'


    Users have never had a need to buy from dealers. They can grow their own, or if that doesn't suit, then they will still have to buy from a dealer. Nothing new here.
    Last edited by fungus pudding; 06-12-2019 at 10:42 AM. Reason: typo

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Disagree. Marijuana users can be stimulated "out of their mind", full of paranoia doing irrational things. Like those drunk on alcohol, prone to accidents and irrationality. Hooked on high users can blow their budgets on chasing the next drunken session.

    I have No disagreement on the prescribed medicinal use.
    You are describing marijuana effects as drunken? Really disagree with that, thats plain wrong.
    Paranoia can happen to a few novices as well as "getting the munchies' eating food.
    Stimulated out of their mind sounds like a line from "reefer madness" , long since discredited as fear mongering and false.

    Reefer Madness - Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Reefer_Madness

  7. #47
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    Thanks for the link tomm

    "Here’s what the draft Bill will do:


    • Sets out a comprehensive regulatory scheme to allow the legal use, possession and purchase of cannabis in New Zealand
    • A minimum age of 20 to purchase and use legal cannabis products
    • Licensed cannabis products would be tested and true to label, with health messages on the package
    • A maximum purchase limit of 14 grams per day, which also applies to possession in public
    • Controls potency and sets a tax based on THC content, but does not specify what this would be
    • Allows edible products, but does not specify what form or potency these would be
    • Allows concentrates, but does not give detail
    • Allows home growing of 2 plants per adult aged over 20, or a maximum of 4 plants per household
    • Allows home made infusions but bans making concentrates at home (including non-solvent methods like traditional dry sift or water hash)
    • Bans home delivery through mail order or internet sales
    • Strictly controls marketing and advertising (point of sale only, and even then, just a price sign)
    • Limits licensed production to meet current demand, with the ability to reduce production over time
    • Creates a cannabis licensing authority to work out much of the detail, and be more responsive to evolving issues.

    It’s particularly heartening to see the focus on consumer safety, and that there will be a public education campaign in the lead up to the referendum. There is a lot to like, in fact, but also many areas that are still to be completed or could be made much better
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/12/0...t-even-better/

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post


    'Remove the necessity for users to deal with drug dealers'


    Users have never had a need to buy from dealers. They can grow their own, or if that doesn't suit, then they will still have to buy from a dealer. Nothing new here.
    Users also don't have to go to butcher, they can raise a cow and slaughter it at home...

  9. #49
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    Was asking caregivers their opinions the other day. Both all for it.One said it will be great relief when people can grow their own "then we wont have to put up with them sneaking into our place and planting them every year".

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Marijuana users can be stimulated "out of their mind", full of paranoia doing irrational things. Like those drunk on alcohol, prone to accidents and irrationality. Hooked on high users can blow their budgets on chasing the next drunken session.
    I think you've been watching too many movies mate


    reefer%20madness.jpg
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by peetter View Post
    Users also don't have to go to butcher, they can raise a cow and slaughter it at home...
    or buy from a dealer. As I said - nothing new.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    You are describing marijuana effects as drunken? Really disagree with that, thats plain wrong.
    Paranoia can happen to a few novices as well as "getting the munchies' eating food.
    Stimulated out of their mind sounds like a line from "reefer madness" , long since discredited as fear mongering and false.

    Reefer Madness - Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org wiki Reefer_Madness
    No not fear mongering. I should have used stoned rather than drunken.

    Just what I have witnessed. Obviously the effect of intoxication varies in individuals.
    https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...ijuana-effects


    Adverse Health Effects of Marijuana Use

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    I think you've been watching too many movies mate


    reefer%20madness.jpg
    Nope I will leave that movie in your back catalogue! The Indoctrination I remember from my school days came in the form of my teachers denigrating anti-springbok tour protesters.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    Only two plants allowed per person per dwelling. Not much room for error. Who would grow two tomato plants or two corn?
    Won't they self seed ?

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    I would go a lot further. We have been trying to stop people doing drugs for a long long time. Laws making it illegal don't work. We've proved this over the last 60 years or so. All they have done is make the gangs rich. Remind me what the definition of stupid is...doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result ?

    Make them all legal. Sell them at pharmacies.
    Make it a health problem...put all the money we spend on corrections/crime prevention into education and health
    services.
    One of my biggest concerns would be what the gangs would turn to ?
    And yes...this would have to be a well thought out process to move from our current system to a new one.
    Last edited by RTM; 09-12-2019 at 05:21 PM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    No not fear mongering. I should have used stoned rather than drunken.

    Just what I have witnessed. Obviously the effect of intoxication varies in individuals.
    https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...ijuana-effects


    Adverse Health Effects of Marijuana Use

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4827335/

    Thanks , stoned is the more accurate description.

    "When marijuana is smoked, THC and other chemicals in the plant pass from the lungs into the bloodstream, which rapidly carries them throughout the body to the brain. The person begins to experience effects almost immediately (see "How does marijuana produce its effects?"). Many people experience a pleasant euphoria and sense of relaxation. Other common effects, which may vary dramatically among different people, include heightened sensory perception (e.g., brighter colors), laughter, altered perception of time, and increased appetite."

    "Pleasant experiences with marijuana are by no means universal. Instead of relaxation and euphoria, some people experience anxiety, fear, distrust, or panic. These effects are more common when a person takes too much, the marijuana has an unexpectedly high potency, or the person is inexperienced. People who have taken large doses of marijuana may experience an acute psychosis, which includes hallucinations, delusions, and a loss of the sense of personal identity. These unpleasant but temporary reactions are distinct from longer-lasting psychotic disorders, such as schizophrenia, that may be associated with the use of marijuana in vulnerable individuals. "

    Yes this can happen. Easy to change dosage but some will not wish to try it again, thats fine if its not enjoyable for them.

    https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...ijuana-effects

    Yes i think most agree that 20-21 is a safe age to use marijuana. I believe its more tempting for younger people to do/try things that are illegal and of course the tinny house or dealers is just around the corner and who knows what quality/strength it is or if its been laced with something.And yep most agree like alcohol driving on marijuana impairs reactions etc.

    On a quick scan i found alot of "may" (at least 11)," more likely," " unclear," "likely," " suggest", "probably", "and could be "etc in that article. Conjecture.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    ....

    On a quick scan i found alot of "may" (at least 11)," more likely," " unclear," "likely," " suggest", "probably", "and could be "etc in that article. Conjecture.
    It is from one of the US government's public health web sites. The item's intent is to summarise for the general public the findings from latest research reports. I guess "likely" and "more likely" may mean according to latest research that you have a greater than 50% chance of experiencing the described effect. "Suggest" and "probably" mean that you have a significantly greater than 50% chance of experiencing the described effect.

    Research on outcomes from various events results in a confidence range of the various possible outcomes actually occurring.

    I am not sure what you mean by conjecture in this circumstance. I guess we still do not have the complete picture on the effects. So the item is based on scientific research so far...

    When there is serious mistrust, or lack of confidence, many things can be dismissed as conjecture.
    In this case it is conjecture if:
    (a) You mistrust the American Government.
    (a) You mistrust the American NIH
    (b) You mistrust the Scientific research from which these conclusions are drawn.
    (c) You mistrust the author of the website item.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    or buy from a dealer. As I said - nothing new.
    As a Cdn, the legalisation of marijuana has done little for society. I sure hope NZ looks at the examples of what's happened in Canada. The underground dealers knew better that with gov't regulation that they could not produce a product cheaper than the black market items. The vast majority of customers don't care for the value-added Cannabis products as the #1 method for use is via inhaling.

    Just take a look at all the Cdn shares in cannabis ; all trading at near 52wk lows where many have lost 80% of their peak value.

    Also the police require new sets of tools to detect those impaired driving from cannabis use. The net benefit isn't all that clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    As a Cdn, the legalisation of marijuana has done little for society. I sure hope NZ looks at the examples of what's happened in Canada. The underground dealers knew better that with gov't regulation that they could not produce a product cheaper than the black market items. The vast majority of customers don't care for the value-added Cannabis products as the #1 method for use is via inhaling.

    Just take a look at all the Cdn shares in cannabis ; all trading at near 52wk lows where many have lost 80% of their peak value.

    Also the police require new sets of tools to detect those impaired driving from cannabis use. The net benefit isn't all that clear.
    Nice twist on actual truth. The only reason dealers are still in play is, because there are not enough licenses for shops.There is no way dealers will win in this after the licensed shops become widespread.

    The companies have too much stock and no way to distribute it. That combined with no edibles allowed to be sold, is why the SPW is down.
    Last edited by peetter; 10-12-2019 at 09:47 AM.

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    If you read this article, Canada is putting out a 2.0 phase of the legalisation of marijuana ; simply because the black market sales continue to hold.

    https://marketrealist.com/2019/10/ca...-market-sales/

    IMO, it's not gonna work. Market forces in economics prove regulations comes at a cost vs the unregulated 'black market'. For eg. in the province of BC, commercial growers pay a much higher rate for electricity than residential rates (where black market growers operate on).

    Overstock of CBD, and their variant products is not the problem. More like the demand is not there for those interested in buying. Remember, those recreational users for decades had their own supply source. You have analysts pumping up the cannabis stocks assuming like 80% of the population would be consuming this crap; yet no one questions is (as Buffet says, they're buying on 'area' and not on 'brains'). The 'area' being they may believe everyone will be hooked on those products but in reality.... there won't be many new customers. Again, pot heads have their own black market supply.

    It's an issue of too much time and nothing to do so are we going to try educate people about the issues of marijuana? Like anything else that can get into trouble - when people have too much time, the chances of getting into trouble are high when they could contribute to society in a more productive way.

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