sharetrader
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    South Canterbury
    Posts
    159

    Default Suggestions for Sharesies test

    Got an email today with an early access invite to Sharesies companies trading beta testing. I’m thinking I’ll have a bit of a “play” but I need some help choosing what company to pick. At the moment Sharesies doesn’t offer DRP, which is disappointing but it is something they hope to introduce down the track. I don’t want to pick something like HGH with good dividends as I would prefer to buy those in the near future through a broker, so I can take advantage of their DRP.

    Any suggestions for a very small investment or even something currently really cheap that “might” do okay -just for a bit of fun? Not talking many dollars - just really want something so I can test for them and see how it goes.

  2. #2
    Membaa
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    2,680

    Default

    @justakiwi my perception from what you've written is that if you want to have a "play" then buy anything that is on a steady price uptrend, and then sell it a few days later. Did sharesies work? Yes, end of test. Then stop playing.

    Now, sit down and give yourself some time to carefully think about your investment strategy that you can live with right now. Your post says that you don't have a clue what to invest in. That's worrying, a place like this has an owner of every share on the market and everyone has an opinion.

    No one should give you personal advice, unless they're an AFA and they cannot do that anonymously on a share chat forum.

    It's not hard to do, coming up with an investment strategy. Think about what sectors interest you firstly, then what companies are solid, growing EPS and have a future, then pick one or two, then buy them. You might want to take a conservative approach, something utterly boring that churns out a profit every quarter and pays most of it to its shareholders. (retirement, utilities, airports, seaports ... etc)

    If I could offer a suggestion, don't treat this like a casino, if you want instant wins (or losses) just play the red or black on a roulette table, it requires no thought. The share market is a collection of companies that when carefully chosen to suit your investment goals and risk profile, can quietly build your wealth, it has to work for you.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    South Canterbury
    Posts
    159

    Default

    Ok, I probably didn’t word my previous post very well to convey what I meant. “Have a play” was probably not a good description.

    As you know I’m a beginner with a couple of grand’s worth of KFL shares. I purchased 1000 shares back in 2016 and the rest has come from DRP and 300 warrants I have exercised. I have recently joined Sharesies as a way to build a small portfolio alongside my KFL holding, as it means I can get investing now on a regular basis with small amounts of money. Rather than having to save up larger amounts to justify buying through a broker and paying brokerage.

    My Sharesies investment will be ETFs. It will be a long term investment to sit alongside my KiwiSaver. I have no intention of withdrawing my KS or selling my Sharesies investments when I turn 65. They will will sit there (hopefully growing) into retirement until such time as I need to draw some down for an emergency or want to treat myself to a holiday (talking domestic or Aussie not a world cruise). So no thought of treating anything like a casino or playing any “try to time the market” game. I’m not clever enough to even attempt that (and I don’t believe in it anyway).

    When Sharesies first announced their plan to introduce individual company trading I initially thought it would be a great way to add a few companies to my portfolio, that I have researched and like the look of. But then I realised there is no DRP option. Now I know there are people here who don’t like dividends or DRP but for me, it is a great way to build a holding. I would like to give their beta a go but I don’t want to buy companies like HGH or a couple of others with high dividend yields and DRP, because I think I would be better to do that via a broker so I can take advantage of DRP (which is usually at a discounted SP).

    So really, all I was asking was for suggestions for something I could invest a small amount in, to test the platform but which would be worth buying (in other words not something like Cannasouth), which might be more of a growth share than a divi share. So you are right, I don’t know what to buy for this particular situation. This is just a little “extra” investment purchase separate to my long term investment plan as outlined above.

    EDIT: I have read your post again a couple of times, and can now see it from a different perspective than I did at first reading. I hear you. But I’ve written this screed now, so might as well post it anyway
    Last edited by justakiwi; 12-07-2019 at 10:36 PM.

  4. #4
    Membaa
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    2,680

    Default

    My daughter has just subscribed to sharsies on my advice because it's opening up to investing in individual shares, I think it's a good platform for her to get exposure to the market. She will only have small amounts to invest from time to time.

    I'd like to support her decisions but my advice to her is the same as to you. She's working on formulating a strategy which I am happy to help her with. A bit like her Kiwisaver but unlike you, she has time on her side, so she can be aggressive.

    As for the platform, are you sure that you cannot simply manually add the DRP shares to your portfolio (at no cost)? Or are Sharsies just saying that the DRP allocations are not automatically added to your portfolio. Sorry, I don't actually know.

    The thing that really worries me about this, including my daughter (but she has me to inform her), is that we are very late in a boom cycle and it is quite possible that it turns to custard, probably for a few years.

    Any investment strategy includes an exit strategy as well. If if goes bang, how will you know and what will do about it?

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    South Canterbury
    Posts
    159

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    As for the platform, are you sure that you cannot simply manually add the DRP shares to your portfolio (at no cost)? Or are Sharsies just saying that the DRP allocations are not automatically added to your portfolio. Sorry, I don't actually know.
    Dividends are paid into your Sharesies wallet, so yes you could then take that money and put an order in for more shares. But you will be paying the market price. The beauty of DRP for me and small investors like me, is the discounted share price. As an example KFL pays a dividend four times a year which means I gain an extra 30 or so shares for nothing four times a year. The discounted share price makes a big difference to the number of shares I am allocated. Not such a big deal when I only have a couple of grands worth of shares, but down the track if I have 5 grand, or 10 grands worth, the difference is more significant.

    The thing that really worries me about this, including my daughter (but she has me to inform her), is that we are very late in a boom cycle and it is quite possible that it turns to custard, probably for a few years.

    Any investment strategy includes an exit strategy as well. If if goes bang, how will you know and what will do about it?
    You are right about this, and yes, it is something that I do think about. Not about “will there be a crash?” because I’m pretty sure there will be at some point. But more about what would the right course of action be for me. As a beginner that is very difficult to know unless we have someone knowledgeable and trustworthy to advise us. Right now my thinking if that happens, is sit tight and ride it out BUT that didn’t work many years ago when I held a few Brierley shares. I knew absolutely nothing back then. Even less than I do now. I should have had an exit strategy in place and should have got out before the price dropped so low there was nothing left to sell.

    I don’t know what the answer is. As beginners we learn by watching and listening to more experienced people like some of you here. We can read and research online, but we have to actually to take a leap and get started, otherwise we would talk ourselves out of it. I’ve done that in the past and regret it now. So I honestly don’t know the answer to your question “How will you know and what will you do about it?” The reality is, I have no one to advise me or teach me. So I come here and try to learn as much as I can, sort the wheat from the chaff then get brave and put some of what I’ve learned into practice. I am well aware everything I do in terms of investing, is a risk. But what is the alternative? For me, in my particular situation, doing nothing hasn’t been working too well.

    Might be a dumb question but are there any “general rule of thumb” guidelines around how low you let a share price go before you decide its time to get out? I don’t mean every day ups and downs, but major downward spirals that show no signs of stopping. Like when do you make a move - when the price drops 20%, 30%, 50% etc (and stays dropped).

    Now I really sound like I haven’t got a clue. Might be time for bed
    Last edited by justakiwi; 12-07-2019 at 10:39 PM.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    On the road 24/7/365
    Posts
    91

    Default

    Hey justakiwi, I absolutely applaud you for wanting to do something to try and build some wealth for your retirement. I also love that you ask questions and you're prepared to say "I don't know much, and I need some help."

    I wish I could give you some crystal clear and basic answers for you to use that would help you, but honestly I can't do that, sorry. Somebody else might be able to that but I do not feel comfortable giving recommendations to someone in your position because quite simply I make plenty of mistakes too. Luckily for me I'm still pretty young so when I make these mistakes I do my best to learn from them so that I hopefully won't repeat them, and with time on my side I feel better knowing that I'll probably get a second chance. I've had some successes too and these have generally come about during times when I've had a clear approach to my investing. During those times I've been most successful I was also disciplined enough to follow my strategy. Lately as we're approaching what I believe to be the end of the cycle I've been finding things more difficult and because of this I've been trying different approaches with various success. I feel that the current environment right now is not very predictable and this combined with trying new things has led me to feeling a bit all over the place myself. I've thought so many times over the past few years that this bull market was going to roll over and die, but it just keeps on keeping on.... to my disbelief.

    What I'm trying to say here is personally I do not feel the current environment is an easy one to invest, particularly for someone who is inexperienced and appears to be more of a buy and hold type investor. The current market in my opinion is better set up for traders who have the skills to enter and exit positions quickly, when the environment changes based on the decisions of those who run the world e.g. Politicians, Central Banks etc. In saying that this bull market could just carry on its merry way for another few years and if that happens the buy and hold strategy could work but I just don't know how it's all going to play out from here, no one really does. I know this is probably not what you want to hear but in my opinion this is just the way it is and I've come to accept it. There's a reason why this is now the longest and most hated bull market in history. The powers at be just keep kicking the can further and further down the road and nobody knows just how long that road is.

    I hope that somebody who is more optimistic than I am can come in and give you some advice that may help. For now the best I can do is suggest for you to use the search function on the forum, if you haven't already. I've found over the years it's been very helpful for me. I've just typed in a term or a topic that I'm interested in and then scroll through the thread titles until I see the ones that will possibly contain the information I'm looking for. There is years and years of threads here and some people have contributed a tremendous amount of information. Personally I don't post much because I don't think the advice I can offer will assist much and I'd rather read what others have written and then go away and think about it. Then because there's so much information around on this site and others, as well as on the internet as a whole I really don't find the time to post. I always feel like I don't even have enough time to read let alone contribute myself. Anyway that's my advice. Go out and read on the subjects that interest you and then when you think you've worked out a clear strategy write it out along with some investment rules for you to follow and stick to them! Everyone has their own strategy that works for them and people are often fine tuning it as they go along but what works for me, probably won't work for you and it probably won't work for the next guy. It's quite a personalised thing that you have to work out and plan what you think is going to work best for you. I'm sure some people have shared their strategies, philosophies and rules on this site before. If you find the threads containing this info it might help you to get an idea of what might work for you. Then when you've got that sorted and feeling comfortable you have to take the risk and see how it goes. As you go along you will work out what worked and what didn't. Then you can tweak your strategy to hopefully get better returns. Like everything in life we generally aren't very good at something when we first begin but the more we learn and the more time we spend doing something generally the better we get. Investing is no different. The mistakes are often what help us the most.

    I hope this post has at least helped you in some way and I'll have a think about some threads that I think could help you. When I find them I'll post a link to them here, so hopefully that will go some way to sending you off in the right direction. I mean you've already set yourself off in the right direction by joining this site and asking questions. There's lots to learn, as it's a never ending journey. I wish you all the best!
    Last edited by BobbyMorocco; 13-07-2019 at 07:31 AM.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    On the road 24/7/365
    Posts
    91

    Red face

    This link here is to a thread that was started by one of the most respected posters who used to be on this site. Unfortunately she was banned and I think the thread may be a little bit mixed up now due to all of her posts being deleted but you maybe able to pick up valuable snippets of information in there. The first post of the thread is quite a useful one for applying TA to time entries and exits. This could help you with your question "How low do you let a share price get before you decide it's time to get out?"
    https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthread.php?9176-Using-TA-to-time-entries-and-exits


    This next one I remember reading through years ago and it has always stuck in my mind. Again some of the main contributors no longer post here but some of these guys commenting are incredibly smart and have invested successfully for a long time. They understand the history of the markets and thus are more qualified than most to comment on market cycles. It may help to get an understanding of where we might be at today. In fact I might read through it all again myself because it's been a while.
    https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showth...t=secular+bear

    This one here gives a quick insight into the possible benefits of using a stop loss or a trailing stop loss. There's probably many more threads on the subject but this one is quite a small thread and was started by someone who was obviously quite inexperienced. That's all good though because Phaedrus came in and helped explain the way stop losses work very clearly. I thought this could help you as a basic tool when you work on your risk management strategy. A stop loss prevents you from sustaining large losses and a trailing stop loss helps you lock in profits after your stock price has increased. The thing with these though is that you have to learn where to set them for them to be effective. I'm not sure if Phaedrus gives advice for this or not in this specific thread but I'm sure someone would have talked about it on this site before. If not I'm sure a google search could take you in the right direction.
    https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showth...ight=stop+loss


    This one I'm not sure if it will be useful or not because I haven't read much of what's contained in it but I hope it will give you an idea of what investment rules others apply.
    https://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showth...vestment+rules

    This is literally just scratching the surface of what's contained on this site. Have a look through the 'Investment Strategies' and 'Newbies Corner' sections of the site, if you haven't already. I'm sure there will be numerous threads that will be of interest and will help you learn the things you want to learn.

    Some other points to note..... After dabbling in the sharemarket off and on for the majority of this bull market I have formed the opinion that ETF's that track the index are the best way to go for people who fall into a couple of camps. Possibly even for the majority of investors.

    The first camp is those that don't have a lot of funds and thus will find it difficult to build up a diversified portfolio. I personally feel that it's sensible to have a diversified portfolio (especially later in life) because it saves you from suffering big losses that you can't come back from, which is possible if you get your picks wrong when you have an undiversified portfolio of just a few stocks. For me it's just sensible risk management. This is one benefit of buying an ETF that tracks the index. It's already diversified and what's also amazing about it is that it's always going to exist, because the way the index works is that it's always full of the largest and (probably) the best performing companies. You see, if a company is not performing it gets kicked out of the index and replaced with one that is. That removes a whole lot of risk if you ask me. Don't get me wrong though it's still going to go down in a bear market, that's inevitable, but it will go down based roughly on the average of all the companies that make up the index. Some do better than others of course, and it does depend on the weighting of the stocks in the index but that is the general gist of it. This also means that you won't get the same returns as you would if you picked a stock that outperformed the overall market, but the thing is most people don't consistently pick shares that outperform the market. Particularly if they are inexperienced and don't have the skills or resources necessary to jump on opportunities to outperform the market when they're presented.

    The second camp of people that ETF's are better for is those that don't have a lot of time to hone their skills and assess the opportunities when they're presented. Successful stock picking can sometimes take quite a lot of work. You often have to be well researched and have a solid understanding of all the variables that contribute to a stock's performance and there are often a lot of variables to wrap your head around. So if you don't have the time to do this research or simply aren't interested in that side of investing I'd recommend not getting into individual stock picking.

    Please note, all my comments are just my opinion and others may well have a completely different opinion. I don't think anyone is right or wrong, but for me in the future I think I'm going to get away from individual stock picking and will try to generally invest in ETF's that track the index or specific sectors if I'm bullish about a particular sector. This will give me way more time and energy to enjoy other things in life that are more important to me than picking stocks. I still feel that over the long term the returns from investing in ETF's will be satisfactory and when I consider the time I'm likely to save by not managing my own portfolio I'm sure that I'll consider it 100% worth it!

    In saying this, I don't know that now is the right time to be investing in ETF's that track the index, hence the reason why I'm not currently doing it, but my plan is to try and time an entry into these ETF's somewhere near the bottom of the next bear market (whenever that comes!). From there I'll probably just leave a decent chunk of funds in there for rest of my life, without having to think about it at all. If the index provides half the gains that it has done over the last 35 years for the next 35 years then I'm sure I'll be able to retire very comfortably. Especially if I contribute regular savings and let the power of compound growth do its thing.

    However there is once sector that I'm very bullish on over the long term and that is the retirement village operators in NZ. Specifically RYM, SUM and OCA (possibly ARV too but I'm not so sure about MET). I believe those three companies are some of the best managed companies in NZ and I'm sure plenty of others would agree. If you absolutely had to invest in one or two companies right now I would go for either SUM or OCA. The reasons being, solid long term tailwinds that are going to exist for a long time into the future. Solid management. A great record growing earnings in the past (at least that's the case for RYM and SUM, the others are a bit newer so don't have the same great record yet). Also the sector has been a little bit unloved recently which means their share prices are already well down from their highs and already considered cheap by some. While this negative sentiment could continue in the short term, it could just as easily be changing as we speak. If you were to purchase stock in any of those companies now I'm sure that over the long term you would do quite well, although you might see the share price drop a bit more in the short term. If you're comfortable with a little short term pain for long term gain I don't think you can really go wrong there. But as always do your own research, I've been wrong before but that's definitely one sector I'm confident about long term.

    Sorry about my lengthy posts. I have the habit of doing that when I dive into a particular topic, but we got there in the end with some suggestions and recommendations. I hope others contribute too and you find some things I've mentioned to be quite useful. Good luck with the learning and investing. I'm sure if you put the work in you'll reap the rewards later on!
    Last edited by BobbyMorocco; 13-07-2019 at 07:44 AM.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    South Canterbury
    Posts
    159

    Default

    Thank you so much for both of your posts and the time and thought you clearly put into them. I will check out all the threads you have provided links too. You should post more often as you have much more to offer than you think!

    Thanks again

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    On the road 24/7/365
    Posts
    91

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post
    Thank you so much for both of your posts and the time and thought you clearly put into them. I will check out all the threads you have provided links too. You should post more often as you have much more to offer than you think!

    Thanks again
    Thank you for the kind words. I have certainly learnt a lot by browsing these threads and sometimes it's nice to be able to pay it forward. My advice may not always be the best but if it can help in even a small way then I think it is worth sharing. Use what works for you and throw away what doesn't! You're welcome and good luck!

  10. #10
    The past is practise. Vaygor1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Northland
    Posts
    876

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyMorocco View Post
    ...There is years and years of threads here and some people have contributed a tremendous amount of information. Personally I don't post much because I don't think the advice I can offer will assist much and I'd rather read what others have written and then go away and think about it.....

    All good Bobby. Just a few things for you to note:

    When you post, you do not have to give advice.
    You can ask questions, or could just state your view on something, or respond with your view on something.
    You can post facts, or perceived facts.
    By miles, you will learn the most by writing posts. It forces you to think.
    You will discover how easily you can be misunderstood, and you will improve dramatically as a result.
    The (collective) responses you get from your posts will positively help you adjust your views.
    The act of writing and receiving responses may well end up positively adjusting your investing style itself, much more so than just reading.
    Regular posting will help you to become more succinct <-- I mean that nicely.

    All the above applied (and continues to apply) to me.
    Last edited by Vaygor1; 13-07-2019 at 11:31 AM. Reason: Added the last sentence.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    South Canterbury
    Posts
    159

    Default

    Ha ha ha! ... this one definitely applies to me too

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaygor1 View Post
    Regular posting will help you to become more succinct <-- I mean that nicely.
    Last edited by justakiwi; 13-07-2019 at 11:59 AM.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    On the road 24/7/365
    Posts
    91

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaygor1 View Post
    All good Bobby. Just a few things for you to note:

    When you post, you do not have to give advice.
    You can ask questions, or could just state your view on something, or respond with your view on something.
    You can post facts, or perceived facts.
    By miles, you will learn the most by writing posts. It forces you to think.
    You will discover how easily you can be misunderstood, and you will improve dramatically as a result.
    The (collective) responses you get from your posts will positively help you adjust your views.
    The act of writing and receiving responses may well end up positively adjusting your investing style itself, much more so than just reading.
    Regular posting will help you to become more succinct <-- I mean that nicely.

    All the above applied (and continues to apply) to me.

    Yes I'm aware of some of the points you touched on and others are things that I will consider in the future. They are good points to note, thank you.
    Last edited by BobbyMorocco; 14-07-2019 at 01:23 AM. Reason: I wrote something that I decided was unnecessary so I deleted it ;)

  13. #13
    Guru peat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Whanganui, New Zealand.
    Posts
    4,526

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by justakiwi View Post


    You are right about this, and yes, it is something that I do think about. Not about ďwill there be a crash?Ē because Iím pretty sure there will be at some point. But more about what would the right course of action be for me. As a beginner that is very difficult to know unless we have someone knowledgeable and trustworthy to advise us. Right now my thinking if that happens, is sit tight and ride it out BUT that didnít work many years ago when I held a few Brierley shares. I knew absolutely nothing back then. Even less than I do now. I should have had an exit strategy in place and should have got out before the price dropped so low there was nothing left to sell.

    I donít know what the answer is. As beginners we learn by watching and listening to more experienced people like some of you here. We can read and research online, but we have to actually to take a leap and get started, otherwise we would talk ourselves out of it. Iíve done that in the past and regret it now. So I honestly donít know the answer to your question ďHow will you know and what will you do about it?Ē The reality is, I have no one to advise me or teach me. So I come here and try to learn as much as I can, sort the wheat from the chaff then get brave and put some of what Iíve learned into practice. I am well aware everything I do in terms of investing, is a risk. But what is the alternative? For me, in my particular situation, doing nothing hasnít been working too well.

    Might be a dumb question but are there any ďgeneral rule of thumbĒ guidelines around how low you let a share price go before you decide its time to get out? I donít mean every day ups and downs, but major downward spirals that show no signs of stopping. Like when do you make a move - when the price drops 20%, 30%, 50% etc (and stays dropped).

    Now I really sound like I havenít got a clue. Might be time for bed
    The ultimate questions really aren't they isn't it. Should I have an exit strategy. At what point do I bail.

    There is no answer but I suspect that speculators must carefully hone their exit strategy, whereas long term portfolio builders not so much.
    If you have say 12-15 investments in your portfolio and one goes to zero its unfortunate but will be compensated for , and more, by (hopefully) one going to 1000%
    But if you are putting a third or more of your portfolio into one company and it starts to go south then reach for the life raft.

    Quality shares are the best strategy in this time of 'permanent crash-fear'

    Regarding buying some shares in Sharesies. I bought VGL
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,124

    Default

    Concur there PEAT

    Regarding any upcoming crash if & when & how much it happens


    Consider 2 strategies over the term of the investment period

    What would be the likely outcome if you were to go long?

    What would the likely outcome if you go short?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •