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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post

    Oh so you will not engage yet happy not to present the whole story...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ning-rush-hour

    With this televised shooting of an unarmed protesters point blank … the militant protesters would believe more firmly they have to fight back by any means necessary, and the public opinion will be further against the police and the government,” he said. “A war has started.”

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    Oh so you will not engage yet happy not to present the whole story...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ning-rush-hour

    With this televised shooting of an unarmed protesters point blank … the militant protesters would believe more firmly they have to fight back by any means necessary, and the public opinion will be further against the police and the government,” he said. “A war has started.”
    I was actually waiting for you to present the one-sided Western bias coverage of the incident.

    Here's the real story of what happened for the benefit of those who want a balanced coverage :

    1. Protestors were obstructing traffic at multiple locations to stretch & divide police resources. They were also attacking cops, especially isolated individual cops, who were unprepared for the onslaught.

    2. In this instance, the individual cop arrived on the scene and as he was walking away, he could see 4 protestors (actually terrorists) approaching him - two with metal bars in their hands.

    3. The cop pulled out his gun and told them to back off but they kept coming towards him.

    4. He arrested one but the others continued to advance and one attempted to grab the gun off him.

    Ask yourself this :

    1. Is the cop not entitled to protect himself against 4 assailants?

    2. Why did the protestors kept advancing when the cop pulled out his gun and warned them to back off?

    If it is in the US (champion of human rights and all that crap), the protestors would have been shot immediately - no question asked when they refused to back off, let alone try to grab the cop's gun.

    But of course this is Hong Kong where the terrorists are pro-democracy peaceful protestors, and we have the likes of Raz swallowing whole the Western bias.
    Last edited by Balance; 19-11-2019 at 11:02 AM.

  3. #63
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    The protestors were trying to support , free their fellow protestor held in a head lock, i would do the same, solidarity for a cause that only they can understand not outsiders sitting on their high and mighty moral pedestals. Shooting the protestor was no justification and only ratchets things up to anything goes.

  4. #64
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    [QUOTE=Joshuatree;778791]The protestors were trying to support , free their fellow protestor held in a head lock, i would do the same, solidarity for a cause that only they can understand not outsiders sitting on their high and mighty moral pedestals. Shooting the protestor was no justification and only ratchets things up to anything goes.[/QUOTE

    Nonsense.

    Trying to support? You can see them advancing on the isolated individual cop with the full intention of hurting him - especially the two on the left with iron bars in their hands.

    The cop is not entitled to protect himself? He should wait to have the gun taken off him so he is completely defenseless?

    You would love to see the cop set on fire, wouldn't you? Or have a brick thrown against his head?

    Western bias to the extreme on display here.
    Last edited by Balance; 19-11-2019 at 11:58 AM.

  5. #65
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    Sure is shoot the mouth off and be pleased, back patter, safe at the bottom of the world to attack .

  6. #66
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    My opinion is the "protestors" lost all credibility when they started using potentially lethal weapons, bricks and Molotov cocktails, weeks ago.
    Basically as I see it, the "protestors" have dug themselves into an intransigent position and simply will not back off.
    Neither will the authorities in China and Hong Kong.
    Sadly, this is steadily declining to the point where a massacre is almost inevitable.
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    Bricks against guns just aint gonna cut it. The HK govt are responsible for this mess by not listening not making any other changes for the people of H/K. The people have spoken and been ignored, uprising follows.

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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Bricks against guns just aint gonna cut it. The HK govt are responsible for this mess by not listening not making any other changes for the people of H/K. The people have spoken and been ignored, uprising follows.

    Well siad, some comments further above show a certain people are so invested they have lost all objectivity.


    Beagle in general I agree with except concerning credibility imho.

    You are right if you ignore context, credibility through a full developed and experienced adult brain then sure... yet that is not the case here.

    Context, many were and witnessed police beat ups, friends lost, injured and arrested after the peaceful protests initially. So emotions and revenge run high mixed with a group of young people, they think short term and have not fully developed ability to see consequences, all part of cognitive and brain development process in young people which is well known, fight or flight is the natural reaction of people, fight = violence although no answer is a natural reaction/ emotional response by some.

    Majority will go with flight and a small group will go with fight, regardless of how senseless. And yes within this group there will be the dark thugs as well. It herd behaviour and reactions of people the world over. Sociology and psychology have this down pat and states have the knowledge & resources to anticipate and manage this process rather than a pack of young people.

    This is a chain reaction to context...a massacre is almost inevitable, as this is the state agenda.


    ps Anyone with an open mind can not tell who did what and when from small/edited video clips.

  10. #70
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    There's people living in shocking poverty in all parts of the globe....that in itself is not a valid excuse to try and kill and injur others with petrol bombs, bows and arrows and bricks.

    "a massacre is almost inevitable, as this is the state agenda Raz".
    If that was the agenda it would have happened already. I agree its almost inevitable, where we disagree is on who is actually responsible for that. When you start throwing petrol bombs, shooting people with arrows and throwing bricks trying to kill or seriously harm police, these people think they have no option but in fact are leaving the PLA with no other option.

    I agree that the majority of young thugs do not have fully developed brains and are not thinking long term. That much is perfectly obvious.

    Honestly, I am very surprised this hasn't been squashed already.
    Last edited by Beagle; 19-11-2019 at 04:04 PM.
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Disgusting and thoroughly inhuman.

    The Brits extracted hundreds of billions of dollars from HK by selling development rights to land, the supply of which they tightly controlled to ensure scarcity and premium prices.

    The tycoons were happy to play along with the game - all of them & the Brits got rich but the general population of HK were left to fend for themselves.

    Compare & contrast how housing is provided with another city state like Singapore which initially had about the same land area as HK.
    Welcome to the discussion, jt.

    Bit late but hi, we need more Western bias here to liven things up
    Last edited by Balance; 19-11-2019 at 04:34 PM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    There's people living in shocking poverty in all parts of the globe....that in itself is not a valid excuse to try and kill and injur others with petrol bombs, bows and arrows and bricks.

    "a massacre is almost inevitable, as this is the state agenda Raz".
    If that was the agenda it would have happened already. I agree its almost inevitable, where we disagree is on who is actually responsible for that. When you start throwing petrol bombs, shooting people with arrows and throwing bricks trying to kill or seriously harm police, these people think they have no option but in fact are leaving the PLA with no other option.

    I agree that the majority of young thugs do not have fully developed brains and are not thinking long term. That much is perfectly obvious.

    Honestly, I am very surprised this hasn't been squashed already.
    If you read the above you may note it is more than just being in poverty, what has happened over the past six months has had a profound effect on their world view.

    The reason HK state been taken thing slowly as the reality is a great part of the HK population has supported the protest movement in spirit. Not necessarily what is happening now. They have tacked as much as possible outside the public eye, summary arrests etc The remaining hard core who will fight is who they need to get to stop this...they have as a group them cornered. In addition, the world is watching with media on the ground, they ideally want to arrest them and then they can be dealt with outside the public eye.

    It been difficult as in the past the merged in with the general population in protest and they could only pick them off slowly.
    Last edited by Raz; 19-11-2019 at 04:40 PM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    If you read the above you may note it is more than just being in poverty, what has happened over the past six months has had a profound effect on their world view.

    The reason HK state been taken thing slowly is the reality a great part of the HK population has supported the protest movement in spirit. Not necessarily what is happening now....in addition the world is watching with media on the ground.
    Yup - the very same Western media and Western powers which supported and participated in the humiliation and plunder of China over the centuries.

    Wouldn't they just love to see HK up in flames - just like they pillaged and looted, then burnt the Beijing Summer Palace in 1860.

    Forced drugs and opium addiction on the Chinese and then, seized Hong Kong in 1897 when the Chinese dared to try and stop the drug trade.

    http://www.historyisnowmagazine.com/...#.XdNl479S-IE=

    Not much has changed in Western attitudes but a lot has changed with China - too strong and too powerful now for the West to plunder - so it is convenient for the West to undermine via Hong Kong.
    Last edited by Balance; 19-11-2019 at 09:11 PM.

  14. #74
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    I originally thought that the Chinese government would respond with drastic or military force only when the protestors managed to kill a policeman.

    Now I am not so sure.

    I am inclined to doubt that there will be a military response at all.

    I currently think that the Chinese government will be quite content to watch Hong Kong slide into chaos in the short term, and thence into irrelevance as long as the unrest does not cross the border.

    Following the money, where does that money go as Hong Kong declines in relative importance as it becomes increasingly structurally and politically unstable, chaotic, and anarchic?

    As for the politics. . .

    One country – two systems

    “Aaaaah yes, well now, how is your system working these days? Happy with the chaos and anarchy are you? Fancy some peace and quiet? A little stability?”

  15. #75
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    A new head of police has been appointed and he's saying they can't quell the protests on their own.
    He is inviting the public to assist, but what if they don't, does that then become an invitation for the PLA to assist ?
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/19/hong...third-day.html
    Last edited by Beagle; 19-11-2019 at 10:09 PM.
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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Basically as I see it, the "protestors" have dug themselves into an intransigent position and simply will not back off.
    .
    Agree Beagle...
    Those " protesters " holed up in the Uni. know this.
    They also know that their cards have been marked.
    Go out in a blaze of glory...
    Did you note how friendly and none threatening the show from the PLA double marching in sports gear around the streets was?. As they cleared to one side the roads of bricks and debris ?.

    China has many more problems today than the MSM is reporting.

    The " protesters " have now been cornered in the Uni if reports are to be believed.
    Hunger and lack of water will ( should be ) the final weapon..

    However... Their parents and grandparents had the guts to escape to HK.

    Maybe they are just chips off of an old block.

    More power to their elbow is my wish. ( easy to say )..
    Last edited by janner; 19-11-2019 at 11:56 PM.

  17. #77
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    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rsity-standoff

    End game nears.

    BBC report this morning showed hundreds and hundreds of petrol bombs ready to be used against the police and anyone who dared to confront them, including university authorities.

    Guess some of the posters here will be happy to see protestors in NZ (eg. green warriors) do the same - occupy universities and arm themselves with petrol bombs?

    And of course our police should just stand back and watch.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rsity-standoff

    End game nears.

    BBC report this morning showed hundreds and hundreds of petrol bombs ready to be used against the police and anyone who dared to confront them, including university authorities.

    Guess some of the posters here will be happy to see protestors in NZ (eg. green warriors) do the same - occupy universities and arm themselves with petrol bombs?

    And of course our police should just stand back and watch.
    Who knows what other posters might think.

    But I think that just like New Zealand, the police will "toe the party line". Perhaps the party line is suffering from arrested development.

  19. #79
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    https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...nned-hong-kong

    Human rights award?

    Really?

    For encouraging terrorism acts and as much destruction to Hong Kong’s economy ?

    The West continues in every way possible to undermine China.

    The very same British establishment which forced drugs and opium, plundered and looted billions of dollars, impoverished and weakened China understands 'human rights'?
    Last edited by Balance; 20-11-2019 at 03:35 PM.

  20. #80
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    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news...polyu-12107494

    University turned into a petrol bomb and weapons factory.

    But the West commends the terrorists as peaceful pro-democracy protestors.

    Wonder if the British Parliament would be happy to have 3,900 petrol bombs stashed at Oxford University ready to be unleashed at police and the public.
    Last edited by Balance; 20-11-2019 at 03:33 PM.

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