Power shares

[Carpenterjoe]

Utilizing gravity, ARES Nevada will store energy and release it for dispatch when it’s needed. Using a single railroad track sited on a gentle grade, multiple electric locomotive cars can move up the track as they receive excess power from solar and wind power plants during sunny and windy days. The train cars will remain available and, when needed, be dispatched slowly downhill, using their motor-generators to return power to the electricity grid. ARES Nevada will provide a wide range of ancillary services, enabling the grid to adjust to momentary changes in demand and help stabilize grid voltage and frequency.[/I]

Reminds me of this.


https://youtu.be/itbwXMMkBQw

[kiora]

A J Hackit receiving Govt subsidy for power storage now using concrete blocks rather than tourists?
That's lateral thinking

[Jantar]

….. I assume most people who worked there when I was there are probably dead by now.....

Still a few around, but I only know of one person who worked there who has not yet retired.

[Getty]

The energy you take from the water with your wheels and screws means less energy for the turbines so overall no gain.

I believe your other ideas may not be practible either.

Now building a pumped hydro using the craters of the major north island volcanoes would be a different matter all together.

Thanks for response SL.
I meant to specify that the Peltons/Archimedes would only go into @ the top 20% length of any penstock, which I feel would have a negligable effect on the bottom turbines.
My suggestions would TURBO all the hydro systems.
They were built at a time when they could easily cope with the demand at that time, but I feel more efficient use could be made of the massive potential energy of the waters descent, and many of the dams have a ready made settling lakepond at the base of them, to recycle some water back to the top.
This could still be managed in a way that has no negative affect on other users of the downstream water.

However, I bet the energy generation companies, with the exception of Genesis, will come out in support of Onslow.
WHY?
Because YOU, the taxpayer will pay for a back up system, so the the power co's can then charge YOU for uninterupted supply.
If they followed my TURBO suggestions, THEY would have to spend their own capital.

Just another twist on socialising the losses to the taxpayer, so the profits can be capitalised by the power co's.

Will Jacinda fall for it?
will Crusher crunch it?
will Winston Veto it?
Will the Greens groan?
Will ACT see more/Seymour?
Will the Maori Party have a party/hui?
Will the ConServatives give it a serve?
Will TOP just topple?
Will Social Credit discredit it?

Genesis will prefer the status quo, because it gives Dame Jenny a chance to fire up the thermals, and charge accordingly...

[gains]

Thanks for response SL.
I meant to specify that the Peltons/Archimedes would only go into @ the top 20% length of any penstock, which I feel would have a negligable effect on the bottom turbines.
My suggestions would TURBO all the hydro systems.
They were built at a time when they could easily cope with the demand at that time, but I feel more efficient use could be made of the massive potential energy of the waters descent, and many of the dams have a ready made settling lakepond at the base of them, to recycle some water back to the top.

It's a nice idea but unfortunately, that's not how the generators work. Adding any interference, even at the top 20%, will reduce the pressure at the turbines. Effectively reducing the level of head water feeding the turbine = less pressure = less power generated.

[Jantar]

Thanks for response SL.
I meant to specify that the Peltons/Archimedes would only go into @ the top 20% length of any penstock, which I feel would have a negligable effect on the bottom turbines.
My suggestions would TURBO all the hydro systems.
They were built at a time when they could easily cope with the demand at that time, but I feel more efficient use could be made of the massive potential energy of the waters descent, and many of the dams have a ready made settling lakepond at the base of them, to recycle some water back to the top.
This could still be managed in a way that has no negative affect on other users of the downstream water.

However, I bet the energy generation companies, with the exception of Genesis, will come out in support of Onslow.
WHY?
Because YOU, the taxpayer will pay for a back up system, so the the power co's can then charge YOU for uninterupted supply.
If they followed my TURBO suggestions, THEY would have to spend their own capital.

Just another twist on socialising the losses to the taxpayer, so the profits can be capitalised by the power co's.

Will Jacinda fall for it?
will Crusher crunch it?
will Winston Veto it?
Will the Greens groan?
Will ACT see more/Seymour?
Will the Maori Party have a party/hui?
Will the ConServatives give it a serve?
Will TOP just topple?
Will Social Credit discredit it?

Genesis will prefer the status quo, because it gives Dame Jenny a chance to fire up the thermals, and charge accordingly...

Pelton wheels work on a jet of water into a set of buckets. after which the water flows freely away from the bottom. No way could that go inside a penstock.
An Archimedes screw type could fit inside a penstock, but would reduce the working pressure on the main turbine by the loss of head to the lower part of the screw. Not only would that reduce the working head on the turbine, but would move the hill curve outside the design operating range and result in a huge loss of efficiency.

Edit: Turbine efficiencies
Pelton - 0.9
Francis - 0.92
Kaplan - 0.91
Turgo - 0.89
Mitchel - 0.90
Archimedes - 0.84

[Getty]

I appreciate your expertise Jantar.
What about siting either right in the intake.
Similar to a bathtub, which is the lake,where the catchment of water is basically still, but at the concentration of the plug/ outlet, there is quite a force as the water flows thru it to get to the sewer sump/ penstock?

[Getty]

Further refinement, Archimedes inside the intake, pelton useless there, but instead on trailing arms to accommodate different flows, at the discharge,
we've all seen photos of the plumes or rooster tails some dams give at that point, unharnessed.
If not a pelton, whatever is the appropriate type of water wheel for that application.

[Snow Leopard]

I think we could power a small city with your enthusiasm Getty!

What NZ needs is a few of these:


The Great Laxey Wheel, Isle of Man: the worlds largest waterwheel.

[Getty]

Top man SL.
I'm glad someone Getts what I'm on about!