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Thread: Power shares

  1. #851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jantar View Post
    I haven't had time to watch your video yet. May do so this evening when I am at home. But I would take issue with the claim that "The balance sheets of existing electrical generation companies in New Zealand will take a serious hit when PV solar power production & grid scale battery storage drives down wholesale power prices."

    The writer of that sentence doesn't fully understand how the NZEM works, nor the geograpy of NZ and how it affects power supply and demand. Grid scale batteries will have to buy their energy from the market, and that means bidding for it just like other purchasers. This extra demand will mean that grid scale batteries have to pay to get the energy to store. It also means that there will be a minimum price at which they will release that energy back to the market. This in turn means that low prices will be higher, but high spikes will be fewer and lower. The overall result is steadier wholesale prices, rather than the volatile ones we see at present.
    Thanks Jantar, Snoopy etc..I forgot to put my friends reply in.Here it is.Solar Takeup may be huge as it gets cheaper and cheaper.

    "Regarding electricity in NZ, our prices are not cheap by international standards, and when compared with at a range of countries our prices are pretty much in the middle.


    PV generated electricity will be coupled with battery storage, either located st the PV panels, or as a grid scale battery bank. Once battery storage enters the equation, the timing of peak PV power production (during the middle day) is not important. In Australia, Tesla is already trailing a system of small residential PV & battery systems which are coupled together to create a "virtual power plant" which utilises existing grid network for distributing power. The power from those PV & battery banks only enters the grid if there is a buyer for the power (as the inverters which inject 240 volt power from each system are remotely controlled), so this solves any problems with grid instability caused by uncontrolled power from PV being injected into the local network.


    At Hornsdale in Australia, Tesla has installed a large grid scale battery storage plant which has greatly improved the stability of the local network, as battery storage can respond to electricity network load variations much faster than thermal power plants and even hydro.


    Battery storage for supplying daily "peaker" power during high demand periods is already cheaper than gas fired plants, so many of these gas fired plants are being decommissioned in the USA.


    As the cost of PV & battery banks declines and the installed capacity increases, they will also start to displace base load thermal plants, which is already happening in the USA.


    New Zealand has a large amount of thermal generation which mostly handles seasonal variability from hydro storage. Those thermal plants will be the first ones killed by PV & battery systems, once those systems in aggregate have an installed capacity in excess of daily power demand."
    Last edited by Joshuatree; 25-02-2021 at 11:19 AM.

  2. #852
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    Default Solar in NZ

    Looking at this website https://www.emi.ea.govt.nz/Retail/Re...dr=ALL&_si=v|3
    it appears that residential solar is growing quite quickly year on year. As is industrial and commercial solar (play around with the settings to see).

    In other countries, high levels of solar generation are linked to the "duck curve" where power demand during the day drops drastically as solar output reaches its peak. I've heard power spot prices during this period of the day can become very low. If retail power prices continue to rise while solar pv cost falls I would expect this uptake trend to accelerate.

    Currently solar output in NZ is low, but if the current trends continue it may not be this way for long. With this in mind I think hydro dams are the superior asset for a gentailer to have, as it can store energy behind the dam walls during the day and release it at night when prices are more favourable.

    Daily power demand fluctuations could be made more extreme if EV's become more widespread and are charged at night, allowing for even bigger price fluctuations.


    I'm not really an expert on this sort of stuff and would love to hear what you guys think about this

  3. #853
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    Bloody government, just when I was hoping prices would fall back into my buying window they pressure RBNZ to normalise rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarch View Post
    Currently solar output in NZ is low, but if the current trends continue it may not be this way for long.
    If it happens here it'll be on a commercial scale where they can throw all of the efficiency tricks at it. Most people set up their EV chargers to use off-peak electricity so demand would probably stay even.

    My thought is that we'll soon find out if the government is serious about transitioning to renewable energy. From small stuff like chargers on every city street corner to the supporting generating infrastructure. Major projects can take decades to develop and we already have such a shortage of renewable capacity.
    Last edited by Tomtom; 25-02-2021 at 05:28 PM.

  4. #854
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  5. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarch View Post
    Looking at this website https://www.emi.ea.govt.nz/Retail/Re...dr=ALL&_si=v|3
    it appears that residential solar is growing quite quickly year on year. As is industrial and commercial solar (play around with the settings to see).

    In other countries, high levels of solar generation are linked to the "duck curve" where power demand during the day drops drastically as solar output reaches its peak. I've heard power spot prices during this period of the day can become very low. If retail power prices continue to rise while solar pv cost falls I would expect this uptake trend to accelerate.

    Currently solar output in NZ is low, but if the current trends continue it may not be this way for long. With this in mind I think hydro dams are the superior asset for a gentailer to have, as it can store energy behind the dam walls during the day and release it at night when prices are more favourable.

    Daily power demand fluctuations could be made more extreme if EV's become more widespread and are charged at night, allowing for even bigger price fluctuations.


    I'm not really an expert on this sort of stuff and would love to hear what you guys think about this
    Judging by my experience and observations I feel NZ is lacking in many ways to take advantage of the natural advantage we have in solar that should complement hydro.geo and wind generation .
    Solar produces most in Summer reducing demand for hydro when dams are low .
    I have 2 houses which I spend equal amounts of time in .
    In October I had identical systems installed by the same company .They work well allowing faster charging for my ev,water heating,aircon etc making life pleasant and easy .
    Both needed import /export meters installed .
    One house had it installed immediately .
    4 months plus still no sign of Northpower/contact energy getting their act together and installing in the second house.They have no incentive to do so and will be pocketing my considerable excess power I am exporting to the grid .

  6. #856
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    You should make sure you are not PAYING to export power to the grid. Some meters are not able to distinguish power import from export and so will charge you for your power export as if you were importing/consuming it.

  7. #857
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    From John Ryders Global newsletter
    "In Australia, between 2018 and 2025, additional wind and solar plants will add 70,000 gigawatt hours of extra supply - considered to be a “tidal wave” of energy."


  8. #858
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    Duplicate duplicate
    Last edited by Joshuatree; 02-03-2021 at 09:43 AM. Reason: Duplicate

  9. #859
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    Judging by my experience and observations I feel NZ is lacking in many ways to take advantage of the natural advantage we have in solar that should complement hydro.geo and wind generation .
    Solar produces most in Summer reducing demand for hydro when dams are low .
    I have 2 houses which I spend equal amounts of time in .
    In October I had identical systems installed by the same company .They work well allowing faster charging for my ev,water heating,aircon etc making life pleasant and easy .
    Both needed import /export meters installed .
    One house had it installed immediately .
    4 months plus still no sign of Northpower/contact energy getting their act together and installing in the second house.They have no incentive to do so and will be pocketing my considerable excess power I am exporting to the grid .
    Surprised its Northpower that are slack? That is the area of the country most in need of local energy generation for things like voltage regulation.

  10. #860
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    I have 2 houses which I spend equal amounts of time in .
    In October I had identical systems installed by the same company .They work well allowing faster charging for my ev,water heating,aircon etc making life pleasant and easy .
    Both needed import /export meters installed .
    One house had it installed immediately .
    4 months plus still no sign of Northpower/contact energy getting their act together and installing in the second house.They have no incentive to do so and will be pocketing my considerable excess power I am exporting to the grid .
    Slightly OT, but have you documented your install? I'd be interested in hearing some of the details.

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