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Thread: Power shares

  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnip View Post
    A pump-back scheme alone, without adding extra storage capacity, wouldn't really solve the dry year problem.
    Wouldn't Lake Taupo have enough storage capacity in a dry year?

  2. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiora View Post
    Wouldn't Lake Taupo have enough storage capacity in a dry year?
    Most of Taupo's vast volume is not usable under the current resource consent, only the top metre or so I think. At the end of a dry period it might have the capacity, but you need to be able to pump back during wet years to build up storage for a dry year.

    Edit: The usable part of Taupo's storage is 572GWh, so only a small fraction of Onslow's 5000GWh. I wonder by how many meters you would need to be allowed to lower Taupo to give the same GWh storage as the proposed Onslow scheme?
    https://www.transpower.co.nz/system-...ro-information
    Last edited by turnip; 01-08-2020 at 08:05 AM. Reason: 572GWh

  3. #573
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    Back on the topic of smart meters, the open energy monitor project has some interesting kit and software, that would enable you to do real time useage monitoring along with reading the spot market API to get real time pricing.

  4. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnip View Post
    Most of Taupo's vast volume is not usable under the current resource consent, only the top metre or so I think. At the end of a dry period it might have the capacity, but you need to be able to pump back during wet years to build up storage for a dry year.

    Edit: I wonder by how many meters you would need to be allowed to lower Taupo to give the same GWh storage as the proposed Onslow scheme?
    Approximately 17m more than current if the lake profile was uniform, in reality you could probably do it with 10m if you could submerge Taupo CBD and Turangi. Then you need to get the water from somewhere. In other words, not possible...

    You can't repurpose any of the existing hydro systems to achieve what Onslow would. You also can't pump water back up a river. You need a source of constantly available water (either lake or river with constant flow) and you need somewhere separate to pump it to. I agree it is not totally logical from a location point of view, but it ticks nearly every other box from geography (large basin with steep sides) and also in the middle of nowhere so lower NIMBY component. Still some significant environmental issues that would need to be considered though. Totally agree there should be more money spent on energy efficiency initiatives, that is supposedly the best bang for buck. But longer term Onslow is a reasonable proposition if the pricing works out at the current numbers being bandied about.

  5. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by k14 View Post
    Approximately 17m more than current if the lake profile was uniform, in reality you could probably do it with 10m if you could submerge Taupo CBD and Turangi. Then you need to get the water from somewhere. In other words, not possible...

    You can't repurpose any of the existing hydro systems to achieve what Onslow would. You also can't pump water back up a river. You need a source of constantly available water (either lake or river with constant flow) and you need somewhere separate to pump it to. I agree it is not totally logical from a location point of view, but it ticks nearly every other box from geography (large basin with steep sides) and also in the middle of nowhere so lower NIMBY component. Still some significant environmental issues that would need to be considered though. Totally agree there should be more money spent on energy efficiency initiatives, that is supposedly the best bang for buck. But longer term Onslow is a reasonable proposition if the pricing works out at the current numbers being bandied about.
    I think it would be possible, not by raising the level and flooding Taupo, but by lowering the level capability of the existing outflow and channel.
    I suspect this could be done, without impacting on Huka falls, or the first dam on the Waikato.
    This would have the major advantage of having supply close to demand, and not need an expensive transmission rejig, and vulnerability to outage and line loss (resistance) of cable and lines all the way from the South Island.
    Be Much cheaper than Onslow!
    Something for the engineers, cost accountants, politicians to seriously consider before committing major capital to Onslow...
    Last edited by Getty; 01-08-2020 at 09:03 AM.

  6. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastbike View Post
    Back on the topic of smart meters, the open energy monitor project has some interesting kit and software, that would enable you to do real time usage monitoring along with reading the spot market API to get real time pricing.
    Here is the website for open energy monitor, all based in Snowdonia in North Wales

    https://openenergymonitor.org/

    How did you find out about these guys fastbike? Do you use any of their products?

    SNOOPY
    Watch out for the most persistent and dangerous version of Covid-19: B.S.24/7

  7. #577
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  8. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by SylvesterCat View Post
    Thanks. That was interesting. Any thoughts on the future of NWF or TLT?

  9. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by SylvesterCat View Post
    Your articles are always interesting.
    Thank you for sharing.

  10. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
    Thanks. That was interesting. Any thoughts on the future of NWF or TLT?
    Windpower from the article is costed at 90-105 mwh in 2016.
    I believe NWF having already paid for the infrastructure is making good profit at $90 mwh with their current contract.
    So it depends on what the value a gentailer will pay in the future for their generation.
    Clearly windpower knits well with large scale hydrogeneration so I see a good future with long-term increased NI demand .

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